Closest thing to a fairlight CMI Series III emulation.

[BMoore]

I own the iOS version, and its operation is as slow and clunky as the original. I wish there was a button to turn off all that simulation, so you could use it as a fast, modern version.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Maybe mentioned already.....

Theres a link in the sampling section to a Fairlight sample pack for Konktakt with all the factory pathces

[V0RT3X]

Im finding it hard to believe that a copy of the product can't be emulated in software even at least to a certain degree. I'm not talking about circuit modelling the entire system, but emulating it to a believable degree of authenticity using a computer emulation such as DOS/Box provides.

The noise and D/A A/D emulation could be done in much the same way that Plogue has done with Chipcrusher.

The additive synthesis engine could'nt be that hard to emulate seeing how we have stuff that exists that rivals what it could do in the past right?

So why can't they program front end that looks the part and provides the user with the functionality of the original via modern programming solutions?

I imagine the demand for a VST/AU/AAX etc version of a fairlight would be very very popular.

I personally can't afford the latest $20,000 version of the modern remake, and I doubt many can so a plugin version, even if it required an ilok could rake in quite a bit of money for Peter Vogel and Co.

Fwiw i am not asking these questions with the idea that I think anyones lying, i am just a skeptic.

Even if someone just made a solution like Diva that allowed a mix and match vintage sampler system using circuit modelled components such as AD/DA and Analog filters. I think this could be quite a hit...

[jupiter8]

Ok, so prove me and him wrong. Show me how to do it. Show me how confident you are in your guarantee. I'll happily run your theories by Peter Vogel and Peter Wielk. Mr Wielk is the world's leading restorer of CMI's and knows them all inside out, seeing as he helped build them in the 80s and still services them to this day. They're both good friends of mine and I would be genuinely happy to pass on your ideas to them directly.

Well i can't prove anything but it's a fairly simple machine. It is mostly digital for one. To put the foot on the other shoe: what is so difficut about it exactly ?

The Lexicon 480L should be way more difficult to clone and Martin of Relab is so sure that it's indistinguishable from the original he promised a free license to someone on GS if he could tell them apart. He couldn't.

[Failed Muso]

Well i can't prove anything but it's a fairly simple machine. It is mostly digital for one.

Simple it is not. Actual knowledge of a Fairlight will back this up.

To put the foot on the other shoe: what is so difficut about it exactly ?

When I'm back in my studio from my travels, I'll attempt to explain.

The Lexicon 480L should be way more difficult to clone and Martin of Relab is so sure that it's indistinguishable from the original he promised a free license to someone on GS if he could tell them apart. He couldn't.

Comparing a digital FX processor with a Fairlight is comparing apples and oranges.

[EvilDragon]

Comparing a digital FX processor with a Fairlight is comparing apples and oranges.

No, it's not. They're both 100% digital and are based on exact algorithms. Algorithms are always reproducible in a digital realm.

[beely]

Comparing a digital FX processor with a Fairlight is comparing apples and oranges.

No, it's not. They're both 100% digital and are based on exact algorithms. Algorithms are always reproducible in a digital realm.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yes, you can replicate the digital only sample playback stuff fairly easily. Yes, you can add in some extra ninja DSP to start imparting some of the analog components effects on the sound. But as has been said, the way the Fairlight works technically would be I think quite difficult and expensive (in DSP terms) to circuit model, as there is a lot going on - it's not just a digital playback engine, there is a lot of analog stuff in there too.

People don't realise that, for example, the Fairlight doesn't transpose in the same way that your typical digital sampler does, and the analog components were quite highly specced (as you'd expect in a machine of that price) - not Synclavier quality, but still highly specced.

A good model of the Fairlight (though I'm not sure would be a viable product, though I can see why some might desire one) would have to understand the behaviour, and derive appropriate models to emulate what is going on. Circuit modelling everything in each individual voice card and output stage would probably be impractical, but that doesn't mean a good model couldn't be made.

But it doesn't matter how good a model could be, it's never going to replicate the feel of being back in the 80s and sitting in front of this 50 grand dream machine that only the elite would have access to and making records in a different way that everyone else has done up to that point. I don't think anyone has figured out a good DSP algorithm for nostalgia, just yet...

[EvilDragon]

I don't think anyone has figured out a good DSP algorithm for nostalgia, just yet...

Haha, true.

[whyterabbyt]

I seriously doubt it'll be that hard to emulate. A Minimoog should be by my reckoning orders of magnitude harder.

Depends how much of analogue circuitry contributed to 'the sound'. Anway, it was less about the specific level of difficulty, and more about not conflating 'transistor count' with 'easy'.

[Failed Muso]

Im finding it hard to believe that a copy of the product can't be emulated in software even at least to a certain degree. I'm not talking about circuit modelling the entire system, but emulating it to a believable degree of authenticity using a computer emulation such as DOS/Box provides.

Your query is completely valid and as I've said before, I'd happily pay for an accurate recreation of a Fairlight in plug in form, simply to make more room in my studio and significantly reduce the noise and improve speed!

The iOS app does what you are asking here though, mimicking the original in look, feel and usage, but it can't do a lot of what the original did for the reasons I've mentioned previously.

The noise and D/A A/D emulation could be done in much the same way that Plogue has done with Chipcrusher.

The additive synthesis engine could'nt be that hard to emulate seeing how we have stuff that exists that rivals what it could do in the past right?

The problem here is that you would not only need to model the things that performed those functions, but then model the components and processes invented by Peter to improve these functions, as they had a significant bearing upon the final output. I agree that the additive synth engine would probably be easier to do, but sadly, this is one part of the Fairlight that not many people are interested in. Bizarre really, as it is an incredibly powerful side of this machine.

So why can't they program front end that looks the part and provides the user with the functionality of the original via modern programming solutions?

Again, this has been done, to a degree, with the iOS app.

I imagine the demand for a VST/AU/AAX etc version of a fairlight would be very very popular.

Agreed

I personally can't afford the latest $20,000 version of the modern remake, and I doubt many can so a plugin version, even if it required an ilok could rake in quite a bit of money for Peter Vogel and Co.

Agreed, again Peter has many plans and projects in the pipeline and, as a tiny business, is looking for as much cashflow as possible to progress these. If a plug in was an option, he would've most definitely considered this.

Fwiw i am not asking these questions with the idea that I think anyones lying, i am just a skeptic.

Even if someone just made a solution like Diva that allowed a mix and match vintage sampler system using circuit modelled components such as AD/DA and Analog filters. I think this could be quite a hit...

It's always great to ask questions, but it would seem that others don't seem to like the answers

I think we need to consider what exactly people want from a Fairlight plug in.

Do they want the classic sounds? Do they want the primitive UI? Do they want to be able to process their samples through a model of the Fairlight's components and signal paths?

In my experience over the years, the most prominent request is for those classic sounds produced by the sampling element, and as I've said before, Bitley or UVI's products provide these really well. The iOS gives you an feel for the UI and a reasonable collection of sounds that will require some additional processing. The rest, as I have said, requires significant DSP processing power for accurate modelling.

Your request is completely valid and one that comes up regularly, if not frequently, especially as most people's desires are typically fulfilled by a good sample library. I'll say it again, if it ever becomes possible, I'll be first in line for a copy

[whyterabbyt]

Ok, so prove me and him wrong. Show me how to do it. Show me how confident you are in your guarantee. I'll happily run your theories by Peter Vogel and Peter Wielk. Mr Wielk is the world's leading restorer of CMI's and knows them all inside out, seeing as he helped build them in the 80s and still services them to this day. They're both good friends of mine and I would be genuinely happy to pass on your ideas to them directly.

While Im agnostic to the idea that its 'easy', you do realise that they may not be the best people to judge whether its impossible or not?
Personally, I'd be asking a developer who's already done analogue modelling on native hardware that question.

And equating Peter to companies like Korg (who recreated their M1, MS20, MonoPoly and Polysix in various software forms that sell for $50 each) is like comparing Wal-Mart with the guy who runs the corner shop at the bottom of the street.

So Peter is Walmart, and Korg are a corner shop? You sure you got that right?

[EvilDragon]

Do they want to be able to process their samples through a model of the Fairlight's components and signal paths?

THAT would be splendid. Not the primitive UI, hell no.

[whyterabbyt]

The problem here is that you would not only need to model the things that performed those functions, but then model the components and processes invented by Peter to improve these functions, as they had a significant bearing upon the final output.

No, you dont have to. You could model them at any building-block level between the component level, and a black-box model of the results.

[EvilDragon]

The problem here is that you would not only need to model the things that performed those functions, but then model the components and processes invented by Peter to improve these functions, as they had a significant bearing upon the final output.

No, you dont have to. You could model them at any building-block level between the component level, and a black-box model of the results.

Correct. Neural networks are good for this, and they produce great results when taught properly.


It's not impossible, it's just that Peter doesn't want it to happen, so he can continue to command a price premium. It's fairly obvious.

[Failed Muso]

Comparing a digital FX processor with a Fairlight is comparing apples and oranges.

No, it's not. They're both 100% digital and are based on exact algorithms. Algorithms are always reproducible in a digital realm.

And that is where you're wrong because the Fairlight is not just digital. As is explained here...

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yes, you can replicate the digital only sample playback stuff fairly easily. Yes, you can add in some extra ninja DSP to start imparting some of the analog components effects on the sound. But as has been said, the way the Fairlight works technically would be I think quite difficult and expensive (in DSP terms) to circuit model, as there is a lot going on - it's not just a digital playback engine, there is a lot of analog stuff in there too.

People don't realise that, for example, the Fairlight doesn't transpose in the same way that your typical digital sampler does, and the analog components were quite highly specced (as you'd expect in a machine of that price) - not Synclavier quality, but still highly specced.

A good model of the Fairlight (though I'm not sure would be a viable product, though I can see why some might desire one) would have to understand the behaviour, and derive appropriate models to emulate what is going on. Circuit modelling everything in each individual voice card and output stage would probably be impractical, but that doesn't mean a good model couldn't be made.

But it doesn't matter how good a model could be, it's never going to replicate the feel of being back in the 80s and sitting in front of this 50 grand dream machine that only the elite would have access to and making records in a different way that everyone else has done up to that point. I don't think anyone has figured out a good DSP algorithm for nostalgia, just yet...

Yup, you've pretty much struck that nail firmly on the head