Zebra vs Absynth for ambient?

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vurt wrote: im not sure what an "ambient only synth" would even be?
I wasn't precise enough.
I meant: an Ambient-Soundscapes/Drones Synthesizer only!
With no traditional sounds at all.
EvilDragon wrote: A lot of HG Fortune synths are exactly that.
:( PC-Windows only!

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theres a fair few reaktor ensembles it maybe difficult to put into "traditional" tracks. well, with some creativity its obviously possible...

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The M-RGT stuff are excellent too (PC only)! Hope the dev will resurface.

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Delfinoverde wrote:
vurt wrote: im not sure what an "ambient only synth" would even be?
I wasn't precise enough.
I meant: an Ambient-Soundscapes/Drones Synthesizer only!
With no traditional sounds at all.
EvilDragon wrote: A lot of HG Fortune synths are exactly that.
:( PC-Windows only!
I think Absynth suits you more. Zebra is easier to program and has more general purpose approach (and you already have Alchemy?), but Absynth has already so many Ambient sounds you can tweak or mutate. Although for designing your sound from scratch, Absynth needs more effort than other synths. Anyway, IMO Absynth is a very unique synth and it is very difficult to make the same weird sounds in other synths!

I thought to buy Zebra but I ended buying Massive (discounted) + Absynth (market place) for the same price of Zebra ($150) :D

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Delfinoverde wrote:
EvilDragon wrote: A lot of HG Fortune synths are exactly that.
:( PC-Windows only!
I don't see a problem here. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

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Tricky-Loops wrote:Are there people who make ambient music with dongles? :o
With enough effects, even a dongle can be ambient-ized! :troll: :hihi:
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Argh, so much to think about - I can only choose one for now, I have a QuNexus I need to buy ;ooops: and that's kind of critical as my Alesis Qx25 isn't cutting it for me. :(

It'd take me until May to afford both... :cry: :cry:

Re: dongles - I don't buy dongled software, I don't care how good it is.
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Echoes in the Attic wrote:
woolyloach wrote:I'm really leaning towards Zebra now. As I do more research it seems Absynth is a pain to create patches for, while with Zebra I can get Dark Zebra and go from there...
Sure Absynth isn't the most fun to design sounds with the normal way. But there is something else very unique about Absynth when it comes to patch design. And that is the patch morphing. This function alone makes Absynth extremely fun to experiment with. The really cool thing is that you can start with some patch and then filter the massive preset library down to certain characteristics that you want in your sound, then hit the morph button and Absynth will actually morph the current preset towards the patch characteristics that are filtered on. So you can keep it in a certain area of sound and then tweak as you go. I can't even believe how many really useful and interesting sounds I've come up with using the morph in Absynth. Just amazing.

I've not particularly enjoyed the patch morphing, or found it useful... but then I usually have an objective in mind.

I prefer a synth I can just create what is in my mind rather than hit a morph over and over until something interesting comes out. Not that it is impossible to have both in one synth...

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ariston wrote:Absynth's finest ambient chops are to be found in its granular processing and fx section - it's got a certain airy, luminous quality that's great for ambient textures.

I'm just not that thrilled with granular in general. It has a distinctive character and I find myself trying to escape it. Granular is a really easy way to create an evolving drone, but the easily recognizable synthesis method is the downside for me. Plus it is not particularly predictable or controllable. So I hardly use granular synthesis at this point.

I suppose one should refine ones own meaning to ambient... The classic granular/time stretched, slowly evolving washes of sound are not it for me... for me, ambient as an area of interest has some of that, but is more the character of an analogue modular... with some edge, and sharp textures not all smoothed out by granular stretching and lots of effects.

I particularly like sounds that are ambiguous in their origins. Absynth (great name for it!) is such an obviously digital fx synth. It is well made and innovative and I appreciate it, but it does not tickle my fancy soundwise. Take away the granular and effects, and it is less exciting besides being not so easy to work with.

I find Zebra a more fruitful playground for the types of sounds I most like... organic, expressive and tonally versatile without immediately relying on effects. Plus I consider it to have a higher sound quality.

But for someone else, Absynth may be just the ticket. I had to buy both before I discovered which I would use more.

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pdxindy wrote:I find Zebra a more fruitful playground for the types of sounds I most like... organic, expressive and tonally versatile without immediately relying on effects. Plus I consider it to have a higher sound quality.
Yes, I will agree that Zebra has a better sound quality. (Although perhaps "improving" the sound quality of Absynth might in some way be detrimental to the vibe that it currently has...?)

Personally, my favorite ambient is the works Steve Roach and Robert Rich.

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Old Crab wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I find Zebra a more fruitful playground for the types of sounds I most like... organic, expressive and tonally versatile without immediately relying on effects. Plus I consider it to have a higher sound quality.
Yes, I will agree that Zebra has a better sound quality. (Although perhaps "improving" the sound quality of Absynth might in some way be detrimental to the vibe that it currently has...?)
Maybe so... though if there are options, then what is currently there is not lost...

and of course all these sorts of discussions are in the context of all top synths these days being pretty damn good...

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My vote would be for Absynth :-o :lol:

Myself, I don't use the granular options hardly at all. Remember that a lot of the really classic Absynth sounds were created before Absynth could even use samples. But, with the Architecture waveforms; I have tons of single cycle material to play with. Add to that morph waves and all the things you can do to warp the original waveform before you hit the filters, etc., and it's not an issue. I layer sample channels with wave channels quite often, but I rarely use the granular engine for anything.

In regards to programming, it's not that bad at all if you remember two things: 1) the values shown are maximums (or minimums in the case of negative values): any modulation can go TO that point and not beyond, and 2) it's all about the envelopes.

ew
A spectral heretic...

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Old Crab wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I find Zebra a more fruitful playground for the types of sounds I most like... organic, expressive and tonally versatile without immediately relying on effects. Plus I consider it to have a higher sound quality.
Yes, I will agree that Zebra has a better sound quality. (Although perhaps "improving" the sound quality of Absynth might in some way be detrimental to the vibe that it currently has...?)
Strangely I find Zebra is sounding rather poor & bleak compared to Absynth. :) Absynth is clearly not an easy-going Synthesizer, it is complex - you need some time to learn it well. I bought it some years ago and am satisfied with it.
Old Crab wrote:Personally, my favorite ambient is the works Steve Roach and Robert Rich.
Steve Roach is a real master of ethno-tribal-dark-Ambient, have you checked/discovered Mathias Grassow? This German musician has made some exquisite Tracks/Albums!! :tu:
http://mathiasgrassow.de/

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Delfinoverde wrote:
Old Crab wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I find Zebra a more fruitful playground for the types of sounds I most like... organic, expressive and tonally versatile without immediately relying on effects. Plus I consider it to have a higher sound quality.
Yes, I will agree that Zebra has a better sound quality. (Although perhaps "improving" the sound quality of Absynth might in some way be detrimental to the vibe that it currently has...?)
Strangely I find Zebra is sounding rather poor & bleak compared to Absynth. :) Absynth is clearly not an easy-going Synthesizer, it is complex - you need some time to learn it well. I bought it some years ago and am satisfied with it.

That is why it is good there are lots of varied synths to choose from! :wink:

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Old Crab wrote:Personally, my favorite ambient is the works Steve Roach and Robert Rich.
Robert is vaguely an acquaintance of mine, to the extent that we live nearby and have met and chatted a handful of times. To be sure, he uses his MOTM and a couple of polysynths in his music. But another important component is his bamboo flute and pedal steel guitar playing, through an effects chain of delays and reverbs. I've had great success doing similar things with an ebow on my Strat, fed through either stompboxes or an in-the-box effect chain.

And this really gets to the heart of the matter. Just about any synth, or any sound source, for that matter, can be pressed into service to create ambient music. All you need are long, gentle envelopes, some kind of melodic or timbral motion, and some effects on top. The real key to making things interesting is to layer different sounds, bringing different elements gradually in and out of the arrangement. Electro-acoustic sources such as my guitar + ebow through a tape delay and long reverb sounds so much more alive than any synth. But combining that with synth elements is even better!

More to the actual question at hand, I really love both Absynth and Zebra, and use them both quite often. They are both very capable synths, and can be applied to almost any style of music. But like most instruments, you tend to find something they're particularly good at and associate them primarily with that one thing. For me, Zebra is my go-to synth for evolving, morphing, "spectral smearing" kinds of sounds. I don't specifically associate that with ambient music, although I suppose it works just as well there as with any other style. Absynth, on the other hand, is almost synonymous with both ambient and film soundtrack sounds, at least for me. When I'm scoring my own videos, Absynth is the first place I turn, and for that I often make heavy use of the morphing/randomization features. For ambient, the effects section is really excellent. And the envelopes are incredibly powerful and often underutilized.

For some good examples of what you can do with the envelopes, and for great examples of Absynth used for ambient compositions in general, check out Anthony Distefano on YouTube. Here's something done entirely with envelopes, with no overdubs and only middle C held down for the entire length of the recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwUkq1N ... 1&index=11
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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