KVR Audio

JPQ · Post by **JPQ** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:42 pm

One thing why NI things are popular they are one most easily available manufacturers in local shops like Spectrasonics,Toontrack and few others.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:48 pm

I would have to recommend the soundsets by Adam Van Baker and 7Skies,,,,,,

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:28 pm

Nice sounds Lotuzia. Just bought a great 70's bank from Xenos.
The exenos fear and terror bank is great too.

ew · Post by ew » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:02 pm

Massive's a lot more flexible than people give it credit for. I'm always amazed by the people who say "thin" or "crappy"; maybe they should learn how to program it...

I'd also recommend the Biolabs Massive Sounds set as far as third party sounds go. This is a demo I did for Col- all Massive except for drums, which is Battery.

ew

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote:Massive is ... one of the worst sounding plugins on the market. Thin, brittle, harsh, sterile, grating - those are just a few adjectives that I would use to describe it.

I don't know what it is, but NI seem incapable of producing a warm sounding synth plugin. All of their instruments are of course loaded with features. Massive in particular has a great UI. But it's totally wasted on that godawful sound.

Ow c'mon! I respect a honest opinion but this is too much. How can Massive be the "worst" sounding plug?

I'm pretty sure you're response was because the synth is overrated. Be fair!
+ A synth isn't just about sound quality... there are several elements that makes it what it is... like GUI/workflow, versatility/flexibility and presets etc... the overall vibe you get from it is tops.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:10 pm

Cuauhtli wrote:The MonoPoly stands out for me. Just bought it because it was cheap and I figured I'd collect all of the Korg synths for the hell of it. Have the M1 and Wavestation as well so far. The Wavestation looks like it might become one of my all time favorite synths (I'm still learning how to use it).

Anyway, the MonoPoly stands out for me because it is a lot of fun. I can spend all day just messing around with it. My favorite synth when it comes to programming. If only it had more filters....

Only a matter of time before I also plunge for Polysix and Wavestation! Love those synths!

MonoPoly is very cool and more flexible but unfortunately it's sound quality is (about twice as lower?) than Polysix judging by it's filter alone in terms of aliasing... still a cool synth tho!

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:19 pm

I've got a love/hate relationship with Massive. Something about it's sound always seems "stiff" to me, though sometimes stiff is good (that's what she said...) I got it by default when I got Maschine and since then I have had some fun with it and it is a joy to program. The way I think of it is as one would think of a spice like cardamom. You don't sprinkle it on everything, but in the right dish a bit can really do nice things. Not sure if I'd spring for it at full price, but used or on sale it's a nice addition to my collection. I do have to say though, that when I'm looking for a wavetable synth I'm more inclined to use Largo.

mridlen · Post by **mridlen** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:30 pm

ew wrote:Massive's a lot more flexible than people give it credit for. I'm always amazed by the people who say "thin" or "crappy"; maybe they should learn how to program it...

That's my reaction when I hear people say that about any synth, not just Massive. It shows a general lack of knowledge. Now, if someone has a more specific complaint such as "there are only 3 waveforms" or "the distortion model is too harsh", then we can talk...

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:36 pm

Hey, it came with Komplete, so it's not like I can sell it anyway.
I have little use for Massive, but since I own it, I try to. Like zerocrossing, when looking for that type of sound, I use something else (Z3ta+2). Not saying one is better than the other, but Z3ta's tone seems a little rounder and fuller for me. I think Massive will eventually grow on me, but it hasn't done so yet.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:03 pm

Lotuzia wrote:Massive harsh ? Only if you need it. Actually, it will just *sound* like you want it to sound, smooth as silk, or as harsh, mean and digital as desired. Artefacts there are sometimes, especially when some modulation nodes are used. Just like with acoustic or electric instruments.

Hey Lotuzia, thanks for the examples, sounds cool!

OK, about Massive's harshness let's get some things straight.

I wasn't talking about some good "harsh" digital character.
Some synths, like Massive, get a fair amount of use if pushed for bright, aggressive, harmonic-rich timbres... some synths pass that test, some don't... unfortunately Massive is barely passing IMO. I guess it's got to do with the main audio engine or something. None of Massive's distortion algos are very good IMO too. (that's another sign that the overall sound is dated). Unison (if detuned a fair bit) sounds oxidized and blurry - that's a clear sign for every synth that's in need for deep upgrade.

Artefacts? again not referring to good ones either.

Really hoping for Massive 2 this year!

---------------------

Yes, as ew pointed out. The best way to understand a synth is by trying to program it. (several times and not just once and dismissing it when something is not "perfect")
In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to hear Massive sounding quite "fat" (nothing to do with unison and stereo detuned wideness

) in some situations. Too bad it's not retaining that phatness when needed in a more complex sound. and that's the problem, if pushed (and you sure do wish to push it) Massive sounds harsh in some situations!

.. but the good news is that it can sound good if you get familiar with it and know what to use and what you should avoid (or use in fairly small amounts)

By the end of the day, I think Massive is a good synth like a good amount of good software we use today, we just like to complain by today's standards!

Interestingly, the more you tend to like something, the more you want to criticize it!

PS Massive is not that flexible! Lotuzia used the perfect word to describe it "versatile" (even-though the words are more or less synonyms, I find them specifying different things) In other words... we do get flexibility with some of the feature rich modules but without modulation slots, how can you put the modulators to good use? I mean wtf?! ... (for example) a mod slot for envelope decay?

I can give you several examples why it's important to have several of them...

jeffb01 · Post by **jeffb01** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:37 pm

mridlen wrote:
ew wrote:Massive's a lot more flexible than people give it credit for. I'm always amazed by the people who say "thin" or "crappy"; maybe they should learn how to program it...
That's my reaction when I hear people say that about any synth, not just Massive. It shows a general lack of knowledge. Now, if someone has a more specific complaint such as "there are only 3 waveforms" or "the distortion model is too harsh", then we can talk...

fair enough. we try, but we're not all Howard Scarr. That's why it's so important for synth makers to make the best presets possible. Not just so we can get a good sound by tweaking a bit, but so we know the potential of a synth - that the deficiency is in us and not the synth. Also, historically, the sound of a synth is often defined by it's presets.

reminds me of this story by ian mackaye (minor threat, fugazi). His first band was a crappy band called the teen idles. they weren't that good and they always blamed their crappy equipment. Well, one time the bad brains (the greatest band of all time, btw) had their equipment stolen and had to borrow the teen idles equipment and of course, blew everyone away. they couldn't blame the equipment anymore.

Gadget Fiend · Post by **Gadget Fiend** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:31 pm

3ee wrote:
Gadget Fiend wrote:Massive is ... one of the worst sounding plugins on the market. Thin, brittle, harsh, sterile, grating - those are just a few adjectives that I would use to describe it.

I don't know what it is, but NI seem incapable of producing a warm sounding synth plugin. All of their instruments are of course loaded with features. Massive in particular has a great UI. But it's totally wasted on that godawful sound.
Ow c'mon! I respect a honest opinion but this is too much. How can Massive be the "worst" sounding plug?

I'm pretty sure you're response was because the synth is overrated. Be fair!
+ A synth isn't just about sound quality... there are several elements that makes it what it is... like GUI/workflow, versatility/flexibility and presets etc... the overall vibe you get from it is tops.

Ok, "worst sounding plugin on the market" is a little over the top. LOL. You're right, the fact that Massive is made out to be this amazing sounding synth definitely colors my impression of it. But it doesn't change the fact that no matter how great the UI and workflow, the sound is really thin and sterile. Every demo I have heard that supposedly shows off Massive's "hidden" warmth just confirms that it is one cold, lifeless corpse. Whoops, there I go again.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:17 pm

You just have to help it a bit.

-Like instead of using the saw wave table, use the Saw-Square VA.
-Put if through a filter like the Scream. (the important step to get it sounding like something...)
-Sacrifice a LFO to emulate analog drift.
-Use a bit of the feedback module
-Use processing to saturate the signal a tiny bit

the result can be a decent sound. (not great, but certainly not terrible IMO)

Of course I guess I will never use the current Massive version to do analog style bass and leads... or pretty much anything analog-like since I also find it lifeless, static ("stiff"), not really thin but more like faking fatness through white oxidation

(maybe it's a bit of DPS psycho-acoustic mojo under the hood or something)

Anyway, I can easily see myself using Massive as a layering element and as a main instrument in some cases too... some pads are really cool! Having most of it's effects sounding very good, with some pads, you are basically hearing the effects and not the synth.

so yeah, suddenly, Massive turns into a synth that is greater than itself!

If someone has some doubts, I challenge them to find a couple of favorite presets and turn the macro for the effects all the way to dry.

and listen carefully!

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:33 pm

It's the one synth in my collection which I haven't touched in years, I don't even know why I still keep it.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:41 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:It's the one synth in my collection which I haven't touched in years, I don't even know why I still keep it.

You probably got it/keep it to make a patch bank. I know I did

+ I'm feeling like Massive 2 will make it's appearance in the future, hopefully this year since NI also know it's a big hit.

Will identify what Massive's really good at to try making a nice patch bank, and use the selected favorites to play and use in my music... So, Massive's looking good for me atm!

NI Massive is...