Login / Register  0 items | $0.00 New#KVRDeals
User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
 
15073 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:36 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

fluffy, V-GER gave a very nice example of what you could do in a fully modular synth.
urlwolf
KVRian
 
533 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Postby urlwolf; Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:40 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

Thanks, a bit clearer.
Still, things like the synthi (or KX77's emulations, like KX-synth-x16)...
They have one of these matrices with pins instead of cables. A limited selection of modules (the synti was a suitcase!)... This is what some call a semimodular? But it's a mod matrix (or at least a matrix) as well?

Is such a synth (say KX-synth-x16) a good one to learn synthesis?
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
11568 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:57 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

It would be semi-modular only if it wasn't built out of separate modules in the first place. So if it is built into a suitcase where you couldn't easily exchange the modules.

A PC for example is modular, it contains modules which can be added / removed at will, although sometimes not all of them. Typically the "mother board" makes up a good part of the function of the system as well. The other parts though like power supply, CPU, RAM, cards and so on are typically modular although built-ins exist too.

A good way to learn, absolutely not. You'll find you can't make any sense of a modular whether it is fully modular, fixed modules, or mod-matrix.

The reason is that you won't be able to come upon good sounds by chance with anywhere near the frequency of a more limited system.

The odds are just way lower because the random combination of all settings, the number of sounds that are good x/y, y is orders of magnitude larger.

I've seen people who post youtube videos editing presets and oh man, I start to understand some of the complaints about "GUI related work-flow" and so on. They look like a blind rat lost in a maze, scrambling in random directions.

When I work with synthesizers I think of a sound first, then I get that sound. I know exactly the steps to get there already.

If I want a sound I can't see a way of achieving with the tools I have, I put effort into thinking of how to create that sound.

If I think I can create a sound and work toward it finding my expectations were wrong, I go back to where I started thinking about it.
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
9509 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:07 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

urlwolf wrote:Is such a synth (say KX-synth-x16) a good one to learn synthesis?
The KX-synth-x16 - while delivering a pretty good sound - is a quite complicated and extraordinary synth to learn about synthesis. Then I would rather use MUX, switch to the deep editor and look which modules are connected and how...
User avatar
SODDI
KVRAF
 
3264 posts since 2 Jul, 2007

Postby SODDI; Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:11 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

There's real good stuff in this discussion, I'd just like to add a couple.

A hardware analog modular system is not slaved to MIDI note on. That means it can be run as a constant evolving drone with free-running, freely-tuned oscillators.

Or that the CV and trigger outputs from a control source can be independent of one another as is implemented in Buchla synths, which are more suited to avant-garde music than traditional styles.
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
11568 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:36 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

You can do both of those things with a software non-modular synthesizer too. If not, that is only because it isn't included in the design.

The voices in Xhip aren't "slaved" to anything. They respond to the keyboard gate yes, but they could be turned on by something else if there were a reason. I'm just not sure what it would be or that it would make sense to control the amplitude envelope separately from the activity of the voice in all but the weirdest esoteric cases.

They're all running, all constantly, all the time whether they're on or not. If they're not producing sound, very little processing power is required for this.

I don't actually run the filters continuously because the influence it has on phase is tiny, and I in previous versions didn't run the oscillators for the same reason, although I've got it implemented to "idle" the oscillators now in addition to the envelopes and modulators.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12556 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:28 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

fluffy_little_something wrote:What exactly does a modular synth offer that a hardwired one does not? For instance, you still need to stick to the logical order of modules.


No, you don't need to stick to the usual order of modules... That is part of the fun of a modular or semi-modular design.

For example, in Zebra, it is easy to have a wide variety of configurations:

Osc -> Filter -> FM -> Filter
Osc -> Filter -> Sideband -> Comb module -> Filter
Self-oscillating Filter -> Distortion -> FM module

and so on... stuff you could never do with a standard fixed architecture synth.

In Bazille, which is like an analogue modular, you can do things like feed the filter back into itself, use the output of the filter to modulate an Osc, or use an Osc as an LFO.
User avatar
palebluedun
KVRist
 
176 posts since 27 Mar, 2008, from below Pittsburgh

Postby palebluedun; Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:41 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

Would it be possible for any one to give a partial list of compositions where the differences between true modular and/or mod matrix synthesizer plugins demonstrate a clear sonic difference-- and if so, did it matter? :scared:
Boo!
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
11568 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:59 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

I've never heard it. The greatest sounds I've heard made with a modular were sounds you could far more easily do with a purpose-built synthesizer. For example string sounds that use "resonators" are easily done once the synthesizer even has "resonators", which most do not.

A modular comes in useful when you are patching highly complex configurations with many independent parts. In those cases using one modular is easier than the ten or twelve synthesizers you'd need to layer to get the same thing.

For example I've created patches called "wolf howl during moon-lit windy leaf-rustling night as stag walks through pond, snorts and crickets chirp".

Doing that sort of thing without a modular is stupid. It's stupid over all in any case, but that is the type of highly complex patch a modular has a genuine advantage in producing.

The really big advantage of a modular is that for that particular combination of modules you may never find a synthesizer containing them configurable exactly the way you want. The modular gives you micro-management of every section which nearly makes you the designer. It's one step away from designing your own modules and once you have a basic system work that isn't hard to do either.
User avatar
palebluedun
KVRist
 
176 posts since 27 Mar, 2008, from below Pittsburgh

Postby palebluedun; Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:39 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

:hail: [quote]Doing that sort of thing without a modular is stupid. It's stupid over all in any case, but that is the type of highly complex patch a modular has a genuine advantage in producing./quote]

:clap: :lol: :clap:

Really a great response and right on the money too! :tu:
Boo!
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25228 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:02 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

fluffy_little_something wrote:What exactly does a modular synth offer that a hardwired one does not? For instance, you still need to stick to the logical order of modules.


You use that phrase as though its immutable. Its not. The logical construction of a tool is what suits the task.

There is no point in putting the filter before the oscillator if I am not mistaken :hihi: You still need your oscillators, filters, envelopes, LFO's etc.


If the filter self-oscillates, then yes, you could actually put it before the oscillator and use it to modulate your oscillator.
And since you can usually feed back from later in your signal chain, you might want to filter that feedback, which would put the filter 'first'.

And no, you dont need 'oscillators, filters, envelopes, LFO's etc', depending on what you're doing. Or you might need more.

In the past maybe adding many more oscillators than the usual 2 made sense, but nowadays many plugins have unison, layering and what not so you can make the sound fatter and more complex.


'Fatter and complex' one very specific way that doesnt actually replicate what could be done with more oscillators, that is.

So at the end of the day, modular mostly does mean more modulation paths. .


No it doesnt; modular mostly means a completely flexible architecture for the signal and modulation. And a mod matrix doesnt.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
gremlinmoon
KVRist
 
152 posts since 9 Dec, 2006

Postby gremlinmoon; Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:43 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

aciddose wrote:For example I've created patches called "wolf howl during moon-lit windy leaf-rustling night as stag walks through pond, snorts and crickets chirp".

Doing that sort of thing without a modular is stupid. It's stupid over all in any case,

I don't believe that you really believe that. :ud:

Besides, that patch could be created as a single multi in Omnisphere:
1: Communing With Whales soundsources -- they sound like wolves howling
2: Cricket soundsources
3: Hippo Snorting soundsources for moose snorts
4: Wind soundsources
5: Water soundsources
6: Eating Cornflakes and Enchanted Leaves soundsoruces for rustling leaves
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
11568 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:08 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

Sure, given 100s of megs of memory for the samples.

We're trying to create these horrible soundscapes from a few little transistors and capacitors though, then we sample them after the fact.

Which is better here? A sample of a dragon, or a living breathing dragon you patched yourself! Complete with fire breathing! :hyper:
Kriminal
Banned

Postby Kriminal; Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:13 am Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

aciddose wrote:Sure, given 100s of megs of memory for the samples.

We're trying to create these horrible soundscapes from a few little transistors and capacitors though, then we sample them after the fact.

Which is better here? A sample of a dragon, or a living breathing dragon you patched yourself! Complete with fire breathing! :hyper:



Can you play with more than 1 dragon at once?
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
11568 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:05 pm Re: Advantages of true modular over mod matrix?

How many patch cables and rack spaces do you have? You also have flame-proof pants?
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Instruments