Best 'uncooked' acoustic drum software?

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Forget about the name for a second , but I love the sound of the different kits in the EZX " indie folk " for EZdrummer . The Ludwig set is probably my favorite , they also have a jumbo tom drum you can throw in there 28 inch ludwig tom , a tamborine , a kit that uses mallets , grestch kit , ludwig kit , It really a cool set of kits , it can cover some classic rock sounds , acoustic rock or folk stuff as well as some ambient music too the roundbadge kit would do good for ambient imho . It is my favorite kit out of the EZX s that I have , I mainly do acoustic music . I have the classic , rock , pop , #1 hits , twista kit , and indie folk . Id be happy with just the indie folk EZX out of the bunch as well as the standard EZdrummer kit . It has the multi mic setup and also a 4 mic setup too .

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I simply wanted to prove that the Core Kit is in the same league as BFD3 and the other top libraries. We could all talk for days, but the sound is the proof in the pudding. I don't think it is childish to compare sounds or products. It's called a shoot out. Comparing your product to well known products of the same type seems logical to me. I don't think comparing two drum examples is shitting in the sandbox.

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Listen how organic and smooth the Core Kit sounds even when playing a 100% quantized short loop for measures on end. Many Drum library demos feature busy playing and very human timing fluctuations that hide the stagnation factor. But when working on most real world music, long sections of songs require the same 2 measure beat with minimal fills, and staying strictly on the grid. Being "perfect" yet staying natural is the trick. The example below is quite "computerized" making it more of a challenge for a sample library to play and still sound natural. And yes, I have something to prove. Everyone selling a product should have to prove it's worth. Comparing it with other solid, tried and true products seems like the right thing to do.

https://soundcloud.com/vi-elements-1/se ... tized-loop

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But you've been demanding BFD prove something. People for years have been producing totally convincing drums with it. You want a user of that product to compete with you? You're on such bad footing now it probably isn't too likely. There have been such threads, with fans of this vs that product competing. We might be tired today. You might want to get a lay of the land before you start in with this.

Human (more natural) timing HIDES the 'stagnation factor'? There is a word, 'sophistry,' I want you to go look up now. I for one find a couple of things on the site itself intriguing (the word 'sympathetic' and iirc 'modeling') but I'm not EVEN about to click on this soundcloud track after this.

Maybe you will connect with some person that believes there is this stagnation factor. Maybe they have already found the solution though. It's just empty language to me, as someone that's been using BFD2 for a number of years. The amount of variance in a drum is going to depend on the particular item and/or the particular library anyway. You're slagging the whole line with this lingo and I think it looks desperate.

If you want to argue, I want to know what this 7 per velocity means. I'm a pretty expert programmer of drum parts, and I do not want that much variance as I want the next playback to be more predictable than that. RR is there to avoid machine gunning. My whole trip is vstis yet a convincing human result. Variation that goes on for days with 'a layer' is not it for me. I want a lot of layers instead. I make choices on each velocity I can live with. So if your actual argument is centered around '7 RR per layer' it doesn't work on me, in fact I think it's dodgy.
For instance with VSL libraries, the deeper instruments have repetitions and you attach humanization parameters to an articulation, with say four or six reps. I wind up turning some of those off. I know what I want, and >7 different playbacks is surely not it. Even in a soloed drum kit context, and your end user doing a pop track with that pedestrian dumbed down beat is definitely not that, they're in a mix. Those of us that mix know that a sweet sounding thing on solo can be exactly wrong for the mix.

As per your premise, parts of less interest will show off your round robins or whatever you're on about; like I said, that whole argument puts me in mind of arbitrary randomization, which BTW BFD has a wide range of for the person that wants to be as lazy as possible yet trick themselves (yet probably no discerning listener) with all this variance. But I have for instance deep hihats which are going to be great for a studio drum track for a pop song. I have no idea if there are 'less than 7 per velocity' and I don't care. I like the ones with a large file size typically. I'm very particular, I wonder why I haven't been looking around 'oh, but this stagnation'. Cf., 'sophistry'. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the records where the drummer actually grooves feel better to people than quantization does.

Some people might want that much 'variance' or after a point randomness, but I think these are people that know a bit less about what they want than I do. But maybe this is the right market, people that would rather quantize and lean on 'randomize', for your ways. In that case maybe start over with a thread having stated your intentions up front. No problem, I think, this is a plugins business forum, make a thread promoting this thing. I hope you do well.


I think you have not used the product you're competing with. I think I am not alone in advising you, fxpansion is not the entity with anything to prove vs you.

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"Those of us that mix know that a sweet sounding thing on solo can be exactly wrong for the mix."
Agreed.
"I think you have not used the product you're competing with."
Agreed. I did listen to it though. I thought Superior Drummer 2.0 was the one to beat as far as sound, and so we used that a lot.

As for the Core Kit, I would hope that although you disagree with me on paper about drum sampling methods, that you would listen to some of my examples on my website and give it a chance. Much of what you say about about this topic is right on target I think, but if you don't listen to my examples, then thats just sticking your head in the sand. We took a different approach to creating the library because there are so many others that kinda do it the same way, and so it just sounds different, and I think more real because of it. :tu:

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soph·ist·ry
ˈsäfəstrē/Submit
noun
noun: sophistry
1.
the use of fallacious arguments, esp. with the intention of deceiving.


I have no intention of deceiving. If there is something you think I am being unclear about. Sympathetic vibrations? Impulse responses? Number of RR per velocity layer? Number of samples? What? This all seems so weird to me. I feel like I'm being hated on for having the gaul to say my product is good. I take that as a serious thing that you think I'm lying about this product. This isn't about sales. I put everything I had into the project. Drum selections, tuning, sound stage, mics, pre amps, converters, more tuning, then re-amping the original samples into the room and getting the other drums to sympathetically vibrate and recording that for the different velocity layers, in and out of tune, then the implementation into Kontakt, creating all the art and GUI etc.

I would never want to represent any of that work or the end result of that work as anything but what it is.

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jancivil has said everything I feel much better than I could. I too was annoyed by the 'stagnation' phrase you keep peddling out. I have never felt any stagnation in the sound so don't feel the need to listen to your library. Also I am not interested in a Kontakt-based library, I don't rate the in-built effects that highly. I too also think too much variance sounds counter-productive to a certain amount of repeatable consistency.

Anyway, the fact that you've been slapped on GS and here about your approach should tell you something and maybe you need to step back and try something else. Or maybe you see us all (just the potential customers after all) as all wrong. I've seen developers do that before and they end up as coming across as arrogant.

If you said something like, "Our library contains many more variations per sound to avoid the stagnation that we believe is found in other drum products" rather than "BFD3 only has 7 layers* and sounds stagnant so our product is better, even though we actually haven't even tried BFD3" you might get a less hostile response from people.

*BFD3 actually has up to 13 different articulations and up to 80 multi-sample layers depending upon sound.

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I went with superior for the untreated kits, and because at the time (many moons ago), they also offered one more cymbal per kit than BFD did (that changed shortly after i made my purchase).

I've happily used superior/s2 ever since, and have no real interest in anything else. From what i understand, it deals with triggers very well. I like the custom & vintage expansion, but haven't tried any of the other sdx's. Ezx's are pre-treated ezdrummer kits, but superior will load those as well.
Feed the children! Preferably to starving wild animals.
--
Pooter | Software | Akai MPK-61 | Line 6 Helix | Dynaudio BM5A mk II

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I know this is an old thread BUT... I think the Vi-elements Core Kit sounds great for unprocessed drums. I been searching for some for a while now. I have SSD4, XLN,NI drums, and BFD, but this Core Kit beats them all IMO. You guys were kinda hard on the guy above.I am seriously thinking of buying these after I finish the project I am working on now.

This is my 1st post on KVR, I am a 12 year GS, so i am not some noob that dont know what he is talking about. I really think these drums are very nice. I only wish the Demo had more kit pieces. Hard to decide with only one crash and 2 toms. Would also be nice if they someday get their own GUI software, I HATE trying to route multi outs into PT with Kontakt

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jerrydietzel wrote:You guys were kinda hard on the guy above.
Yeah, because he turned up in the thread to defend a shill first-ever post from a brand new account posing as a customer, who, after being identified as being connected to the company mysteriously never came back.

Which is kind of interesting, because his own first post basically also involved shilling for the product yet not mentioning his involvement with the company.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p5685585

And here's you, two years later. Your first post at KVR, just to resurrect this and defend the guy who started off as a shill, then graduated to defending a shill for shilling. Hmmmm.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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