KVR Audio

fluffy_little_something · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:52 pm

MillerSam wrote:The string studio v.2 from AAS in on the way. They are in the final touches

A string ensemble is quite a challenge, there is something about its sound that is very hard to emulate or even define in the first place.

RafaelMorgan · Post by **RafaelMorgan** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:53 pm

Hey brother,

Well, as far as Physical Modeling goes, the best I've tried so far are:

1-AAS Chromaphone. Outstanding for percussion and marimba like sounds.
2-Image-Line Drumaxx. Perfect for drums and percussion. Very underrated plugin.
3-PianoTeq. Extremely convincing Physical Modeled piano.
4-AAS Strum Acoustics. Really good acoustic guitar emulator focused on strumming. Outstanding strum mechanics (once you get used to it). Sounds really good with a bit of reverb and saturation.
5-Synful Orchestra. Used to be a promising vst for orchestral instruments (violins, cellos, etc...).Can sound convincing enough used in the background. Very good articulations and playing mechanics.

I believe Physical Modeling to be the future of virtual instruments, but it's not quite there yet.

Anyway, I'm not aware of any physical modeling vst which is truly capable of emulating brass, wind or woodwind instruments convincingly. In fact, even sample based virtual instruments can't do it very well so far. Arturia Brass, which was supposed to emulate saxophones and trumpets, sucks big time; It doesn't get even close to the real deal.

That's my two cents.

Raf.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:07 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:Lounge Lizard is pretty good, as well as Electric Guitar if you use the guitar models with external amp simulations & effects. But if AAS would make a BRASS emulation (tuba, trumpet, saxophone etc.) with convincing patches, I'd be dancing around the streets all night long!
Sometimes I accidentally get close to the tuba sound when playing around with synth basses and hp filters But since I don't like the tuba sound, I never pursue it any further.
I'm rather searching for a convincing Tuba sound like in songs from Haindling, if you know what I mean...
Um, no, I don't A tuba is a tuba, it has a very specific sound that is quite consistent no matter who plays it. Unlike saxophone or trumpet sounds, which vary a whole lot.
Any specific Haindling song I should check on YT?

The older ones from the 80ies... But a REAL tuba sound changes a lot over time, the sound depends on the air pressure, and as nobody can breath like a machine, the sound changes continuously! Same thing with muted trumpets (those from Mexico), I love them but I don't know a good emulation of it...

fluffy_little_something · Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:11 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:The older ones from the 80ies... But a REAL tuba sound changes a lot over time, the sound depends on the air pressure, and as nobody can breath like a machine, the sound changes continuously! Same thing with muted trumpets (those from Mexico), I love them but I don't know a good emulation of it...

Tuba sounds are often used rhythmically, thus using short notes.
I don't know Haindling, unlike you obviously. Why not just tell me a song title?!

fluffy_little_something · Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:15 pm

On Wiki there are some good sound samples of woodwind and brass instruments, good for studying the characteristics

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:18 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:The older ones from the 80ies... But a REAL tuba sound changes a lot over time, the sound depends on the air pressure, and as nobody can breath like a machine, the sound changes continuously! Same thing with muted trumpets (those from Mexico), I love them but I don't know a good emulation of it...
Tuba sounds are often used rhythmically, thus using short notes.
I don't know Haindling, unlike you obviously. Why not just tell me a song title?!

OMG, you don't know Haindling? Every Bavarian knows Haindling, they always play his old songs from the 80ies on the radio like "Paula", "Lang scho nimmer gseng", "Spinn i" etc. And a few years ago he has made a great soundtrack for Vilsmaier's movie "Bavaria"...

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:18 pm

If you're on mac os then getting Logic pro with Sculpture is fantastic.
The Applied Acoustics Systems -String Studio and Chromaphone are the best.
The other AAS plugins, not so much so.
I think Zebra does exceptional realistic acoustic type sounds.
I can recreate a lot using Zebra, that is in both the AAS plugins I mentioned.
It's just that the AAS plugins make it easier, by already being in the niche of those types of sounds. Yet they aren't as diverse as Zebra.
Tassman imo, falls short, for certain reasons. I really don't like certain tonal characteristics of it, and other workflow aspects either.
Try the demos out, and all that.
btw...If you get Logic pro. You really can't beat it for the keyboard instruments and that Sculpture synth.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:36 pm

So it looks like the first place belongs to AAS plugins and Tassman.

Sculpture, zebra, and the others very interesting but I will have some time trying all the free (or almost free stuff just for testing).

I own Fl studio, and sakura (IL physical mod vst) is able of doing some good sax emulation, but people says sakura is bad... Sytrus is a beast, I have some years with it and I can say it gets very close to whatever you want but you have to invest a lot of time, like last time I was doing a real trumpet and spent 2 weeks just with that patch. At the end you get very approximate result with enough effort and a good ear (and good references). The problem is the amount of time with FM. In sytrus case, it is a hybrid but no exactly a physical mod VST.

It could be cool to make a thread about some Physical VSTs and try to approximante acoustic instruments just for comparison in free and not free vst, obviously the pro software would win. I'm sure that is interesting. xD

Anyway, I'll do a thread about some of my different tries with different VST... just for fun and exploring not trying to make realistic things because that is impossible.

Cheers.

fluffy_little_something · Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:45 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:The older ones from the 80ies... But a REAL tuba sound changes a lot over time, the sound depends on the air pressure, and as nobody can breath like a machine, the sound changes continuously! Same thing with muted trumpets (those from Mexico), I love them but I don't know a good emulation of it...
Tuba sounds are often used rhythmically, thus using short notes.
I don't know Haindling, unlike you obviously. Why not just tell me a song title?!
OMG, you don't know Haindling? Every Bavarian knows Haindling, they always play his old songs from the 80ies on the radio like "Paula", "Lang scho nimmer gseng", "Spinn i" etc. And a few years ago he has made a great soundtrack for Vilsmaier's movie "Bavaria"...

Bavarian music?

Never cared for Bavarian music, or German music in general. I have been an RnB, Jazz, and Latin person for as long as I can remember

I have much more in common with African-Americans and Brazilians than with Germans...

fluffy_little_something · Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:49 pm

I assume making a physical modelling VST requires a whole lot of research and physics knowledge, unlike with normal VSTs where the developer does not care what kinds of sounds the buyer uses them for.

electro · Post by **electro** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:57 pm

http://hvsynthdesign.com/index.php

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:01 pm

electro wrote:http://hvsynthdesign.com/index.php

A Synthmaker synth for 165 EUR (Total Brass)?

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:30 pm

Zebra is nice for "modelling" imaginary instruments.

The comb filters combined with all the other synthesis options Zebra offers can lead to some very cool sounds:

Some kind of stone instrument
A hang drum-ish sound
An imaginary keyboard instrument
A big drum sound
Something bowed

The resonator module of ZebraHZ is also very useful for "physical" sounds:

Something metallic

Cheers
Dennis

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:48 pm

Reaktor has lots of cool PM ensembles like Steampipe and Prism. Then there's the HV ensembles.

If you're looking for strictly natural sounding instruments, Sample Modelling uses hybrid sample and modelling in their winds and brass and they are excellent.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:38 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
The Rhodes piano is one of the sounds that are more difficult to emulate. Since I am a Rhodes addict and use that sound all the time, I use Lounge Lizard instead of trying to emulate that sound. But I guess it is not impossible to do something similar on a good regular synth. One of the difficult things about the Rhodes sound is the way the sound changes with velocity. The gnarling sound when hitting keys harder is not easy to achieve. This also requires a modulation matrix that allows me to map velocity to all kinds of parameters.

Actually i did some Electric Piano sounds (rhodes and Wurli like and also Yamaha CP-80 like) on various synths including VA synths like Saurus. While mabye not 100% authentic those sounds could be quite nice and those syntheteic sounds could have their own charm. Also tried to do such sounds with the paraphonic modes in the Pulse 2 analog synth.

Of course some FM Rhodes sounds seem to be quite famous but not very easy to program. I tried to to a few of those sounds with Tone2 Nemesis too

Generally trying to replicate real instruments with synths could be an interesting task and even when not authetically imitaing them could lead to nice results. Many factory sounds for old analog synth try to do such emulations. Also what we know as "Synth Brass" seemed to be attempts to recreate real Brass sounds like e.g. Trumpets.

Ingo

What's a good physical modelling Vst?