Does the average listener really care if its analog?

[whyterabbyt]

The majority require vocals and lyrics.

that might be true for modern western 'popular' music (the canon of pre-20thC orchestral music is remarkably short of lyrics, for example), but I would need convincing its a universal majority.

[aciddose]

Definitely would be hard to provide evidence it is a universal. I just meant to say if you're grabbing your average from where it is most obviously exposed, it will very quickly seem as if these people won't listen to a single recording that wasn't performed at some stage, thereby being "analog" in that sense.

Reason I mentioned that though of course is just part of pointing out it seems the question was more aimed at some subset of the audience for electronic music, the sort you'd produce with analog synthesizers vs. software.

So just another one of those threads

[The_Hidden_Goose]

No, I'm not limiting to people who listen to electronic at all.

The vast majority of people (certainly young people, but not limited to) just listen to whatever is pop at the time (certainly in the "western" influences cultures anyway). They're hooked by catchy melodies and harmonies. They might like to dance, so elements that are conducive to that might appeal. They just instinctively like what they like. That's why pop has always been a bit throw-away and mediocre to people who are really "into" whatever music they're into. I don't think most people break it down like some seem to. I think perhaps there are less people really "into" music of any kind of style than we tend to assume.

There'll be a bunch of folks who don't like things that aren't on "real" instruments. I don't think they're the majority. I bet most of the people that listen to prodominently guitar music for example, also listen to some electronic-based stuff and vice-versa. I doubt they're really thinking about analog or digital - even those who have an idea about what the terms mean.

I do think the majority of current listeners (based on my experience anyway - as I've said before the effort to find a reasonable cross section to extrapolate from would be silly) do need vocals and lyrics though, I'll give you that. And if that's true, there's no escaping the analogness of that.

[SWAN808]

This question is similar to what designers hear all day. "Why do I need to pay you when all you do is change the font and move that paragraph a bit to the right?"

Back at design university one of my teachers had created a new fountain pen for pupils, which was then manufactured by a company that wasn't exactly successful in that market. To most people it would look like every other pen. Yet, while no-one could put in words why they would prefer one pen over the other, this pen swept the competition away within a year. It won all the awards, in some countries it became the fountain pen that was supplied to pupils by the state.

Subtle things can make differences. Designers know and musicians know as well.

Just my 2c albeit strongly biased ones.

- Urs

great response from Urs. I loved the sound of analogue equiptment (even include akai samplers) before I even knew what they were...and I knew nothing about production.

Its an argument I hear a lot - no one will notice etc etc...strange how when I play my OB8 through a great reverb anyone who hears it goes 'what is that?!'...

Not everyone will - hell some people barely listen to music...but what sort of listener does one wish to aim their music at - the people who love music and notice - or people who dont care...

[mcnoone]

This question is similar to what designers hear all day. "Why do I need to pay you when all you do is change the font and move that paragraph a bit to the right?"

Back at design university one of my teachers had created a new fountain pen for pupils, which was then manufactured by a company that wasn't exactly successful in that market. To most people it would look like every other pen. Yet, while no-one could put in words why they would prefer one pen over the other, this pen swept the competition away within a year. It won all the awards, in some countries it became the fountain pen that was supplied to pupils by the state.

Subtle things can make differences. Designers know and musicians know as well.

Just my 2c albeit strongly biased ones.

- Urs

I feel that extra effort and time put into ones work, is exactly how that extra something special vibe comes through.
Something not so directly or immediately noticed, until one looks deeper into the design.

[DHR53]

Reminds me of when I played in bands… we never could get a drummer who kept good time. It was always speeding up and slowing down. Human feel – was cause for firing!

[foosnark]

It isn't a matter of effort or laziness, it's an issue of the way you go about getting the job done. It is possible in a sequencer to get exactly the same human rhythm you'd expect from a skilled bassist, but the amount of effort you'll invest will be way higher in the moment than the bassist would. The effort of the bassist is spread out over time learning to play the instrument, much like a lever can allow you to multiply your effort by many times.

I don't entirely disagree with you there. I have become a big fan of finger-drumming parts in. If that means practicing it a bit and doing several takes until I get it right, that's fine. Or correcting my timing a little is also fine. Or a lot, if necessary...

But honestly, my goal is not consciously to make parts sound "human". My goal is to make interesting music, and sometimes just throwing off the chains of lockstep "perfection" can be really effective, or unexpected, and can drive the beat or tug on it and make it stumble and wobble. And maybe I want to do that in a very controlled way, ironically enough

The same goes for tuning. A little bit of not being exactly equal tempered, all the parts exactly in tune with each other, can work well.

At any rate, what I was referring to was the idea that often comes up that analog > digital because it's "imperfect" -- because of tuning drift or unsteady clocks or whatever. That doesn't make it more human! My point was, with digital you have full control over those factors and if you leave them "perfect" when that's not what you want, don't blame the gear.

[BBFG#]

My best drummers were people I could never leave alone in a room with children or animals...
Everything I've done to go ITB has been to replace drummers and guitarists.

[aciddose]

My best drummers were people I could never leave alone in a room with children or animals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wIXXBOqxE

[realmarco]

I Play guitar and I can tell when i hear music that uses a sampler or plugin Sampler to do it
I'v hearda ton of Phy-mod synth and they don't even come close to a sampler obviously

I don't play keyboards(im more of a mouse-lego-building-midi-pattern maker)
but I do hear the difference between an analog synth Patch and a digital synth Patch with the same setting but doesn't try to be analog.

to some extent I believe people who listen, and I mean really listen to music (instead of just hearing it),can spot the difference between a static digital waveform and the same waveform on an analog synth

But I do not believe they would tell the difference between,
an analog synth and a Plugin synth that mimics the inaccuracies and behavior of the same synth in plugin form

For FX I do believe they can tell the difference between,
unwanted analog distortion and unwanted digital distortion.

I've heard non-music-instrument-players saying they prefer Vynil and cassettes over CDs and MP3

But thats just my beliefs and opinions

[Kalamata Kid]

I did an A/B test on music wav VS mp3. Back and forth for a while. I could sometimes could tell the difference but let’s call this inconclusive.

On the other hand when listened to music over ½ hour I say something is wrong or missing on the MP3 file. Same goes to Sirius radio after a while I discontinued the plan as it sounded thin. I went back to my 10 CD player on my Jeep and am happier for doing so.

I listen to Classical music if this is an important piece of relevant information.
Do these statements have any significance to the Analog subject of the OP?

[aciddose]

I'm not sure how relevant that may be to the thread, but the reason you might notice an issue with some sorts of classical may be related to the extreme use of dynamics and very complex reverberations present. It should be very difficult to distinguish a file coded at the maximum possible data rate vs. the source material, but all of the mpeg-audio formats have their limitations. Considering the price of memory these days it seems unlikely you'll find yourself in much of a bind having all your files encoded lossless, such as with flac.

[Kalamata Kid]

I'm not sure how relevant that may be to the thread, but the reason you might notice an issue with some sorts of classical may be related to the extreme use of dynamics and very complex reverberations present. It should be very difficult to distinguish a file coded at the maximum possible data rate vs. the source material, but all of the mpeg-audio formats have their limitations. Considering the price of memory these days it seems unlikely you'll find yourself in much of a bind having all your files encoded lossless, such as with flac.

My car audio does not handle flac. For the time being CD with wav files is convenient. I have 400 CD's and the switch to Flac will be very time consuming. At home I still listen to CD's other then when I am on the internet. But when the time comes likely I will follow your advice.