KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:44 am

Kontakt script can do lots of things that SFZ can't, like true legato, adjusting various engine parameters with greater precision than 128 values that MIDI CC offers (which is the only thing sfz can do, at this point, and it depends on the implementation of the format by the sampler - IIRC only Aria player can do this at the moment), tweaking at note event level (tune, pan, volume), things like arpeggiators, sequencers, drum computers, harmonizers, etc.

Lots of possibilities.

mfb · Post by **mfb** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:44 am

I know its not an all-encompassing selection, but my stuff on www.sampleism.com should work with Kontakt 3.

As far as the forward/backward compatible the confusion is about whether it is the NKI or Kontakt we are discussing. The terms forward/backward compatible are usually applied to Kontakt, rather than to the NKI. In that case, it is as has been said in this thread, that what you would like for Kontakt to be forward compable, which it is not.

These exist:
A backward-compatible version of Kontakt can read old NKIs.
A forward-compatible NKI can be read by newer versions of Kontakt.

These do not:
A forward-compatible version of Kontakt would be able to read newer NKIs
A backward-compatible NKI could be read by older versions of Kontakt

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:45 am

Thanks.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:28 am

Kriminal wrote:Doesnt sound right to me, but i'll take your word for it.

I took me a while to grasp this terminology myself some years ago, ever since I'm on a useless mission against wrong terminology and whenever I'm not asked I will explain it.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:37 am

No problem, i dont mind being corrected.

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:48 am

If tech terminology is not counterintuitive it's not tech terminology.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:53 am

It's not counterintuitive really.

Backwards compabitility - new program version can load older program versions (backward/previous version numbers).
Forwards compatibility - old program version can load newer program versions, usually with restrictions and dropping features introduced in later versions (forward/next version numbers).

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:04 am

I know, once you have learnt it makes sense. But the first time you are confronted with this it's not clear if you should see it from the program's point of view or from the preset's point of view, as the OP did.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:08 am

EvilDragon wrote:It's not counterintuitive really.

Backwards compabitility - new program version can load older program versions (backward/previous version numbers).
Forwards compatibility - old program version can load newer program versions, usually with restrictions and dropping features introduced in later versions (forward/next version numbers).

Yes, thats exactly what i meant.... how the f**k did i get it the wrong way round? Or did i...? In my defence, i was trying to get ready for work and the kids ready for school....im even more confused now....

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:42 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:The term is "forward compatibilty" not backwards, meaning that you can play a preset made with a younger version on an older version of any given software, confusing I know...

Not meaning to be a smartass, but i dont think this can be right. Otherwise it would be very strange usage of terms that have a clearly defined meaning. Let me explain:

If i made an NKI today, and made it so that it works in versions of Kontakt that will be released in the future, i would have made the NKI forward compatible because the compatibility would be with Kontakt versions that are yet to come. (Future = Forward)

If on the other hand i make an NKI today, and make it so that it still works with versions of Kontakt released in the past, i would make the NKI backward compatible because the compatibility would be with Kontakt versions that are older than the NKI itself. (Past = Backward)

If the accepted meaning is really the other way around, humanity is in trouble.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:45 am

standalone wrote:I know, once you have learnt it makes sense. But the first time you are confronted with this it's not clear if you should see it from the program's point of view or from the preset's point of view, as the OP did.

yep thats right: seems there lays the problem.. ..therefore imho you can't ask any devs "make the nki's backward-compatible" when the software itself don't allow it. the devs have to create two (or even more) versions then - which unlikely will happen for good reason. OP is better advised to set his request towards Native Instruments where it belong to.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:55 am

ENV1 wrote:If the accepted meaning is really the other way around, humanity is in trouble.

It is how it is. Check the linked wikipedia articles.

mfb · Post by **mfb** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:56 am

Like I said earlier - usually the term backward/forward compatible is used for the progream, ie. Kontakt. The meanings of backward and forward compatible would flip if you were to atypically apply the terms to the NKIs rather than to Kontakt. (If I'm to the left of you, then you're to the right of me)

Given that the forward (or backward) compatibility of the NKIs is basically dependent on the backward (or forward) comnpatiibility of Kontakt, it probably makes more sense just to discuss the compatability of Kontakt and not confuse matters by discussing the compatibility of the NKIs.

As has also been mentioned, there isn't really a way to make NKIs backward compatible - you'd have to get NI to change Kontakt for that to work. NI is not likely to do that, because the only way to do it would be impose restrictions on future versions of Kontakt, which they don't really want to do. The thing that NI *might* implement (but I wouldn't hold my breath) is allowing Kontakt to save something in an older format (possibly loosing some of the features of the NKI in the process). This is what Microsoft does with e.g., Office.

I don't think this issue is the reason humanity is in trouble though

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:57 am

ENV1 wrote:If i made an NKI today, and made it so that it works in versions of Kontakt that will be released in the future, i would have made the NKI forward compatible because the compatibility would be with Kontakt versions that are yet to come. (Future = Forward)

right, but nobody said that .nki are not forward-compatible.

ENV1 wrote:If on the other hand i make an NKI today, and make it so that it still works with versions of Kontakt released in the past, i would make the NKI backward compatible because the compatibility would be with Kontakt versions that are older than the NKI itself. (Past = Backward)

right again, only you can't make them backward-compatible thats what the thread is all about. simon only point out that it should be "forward-compatible" (for the software not the lib) because OP wants to have Kontakt4/5 libraries loaded with is Kontakt3 software (v3 loads v5 lib = forward compatible) which not exist.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:59 am

mfb wrote:Like I said earlier - usually the term backward/forward compatible is used for the progream, ie. Kontakt. The meanings of backward and forward compatible would flip if you were to atypically apply the terms to the NKIs rather than to Kontakt. (If I'm to the left of you, then you're to the right of me)

exactly. in fact its actually technically impossible to absolutely guarantee forwards-compatibility of data with a specific application; its a condition that the application has to be backwards-compatible for this to work.

Request - please make nki's backwards-compatible