KVR Audio

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:37 pm

Could the MSEGs be enhanced in some way in the future? Take, for example, the graphic multipoint envelopes on Image-Line's Harmor, that allow different kinds of curves and shapes to join the points..or allow to set the points as the beginning of the decay and release stages...or have the ability to 'snap' points to the grid, 'slide' points, the ability to draw by hand the shape of the envelope with a 'step' mode...I don't know...I think there's room for improvement in this area.

elassi · Post by **elassi** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:40 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote:Could the MSEGs be enhanced in some way?

Pretty sure there will be some enhancements over time. At least I hope so, like you.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:41 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote:Could the MSEGs be enhanced in some way? Take, for example, the graphic multipoint envelopes on Image-Line's Harmor, that allow different kinds of curves and shapes to join them..

grab the line between points and move it around for diff curves

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:50 pm

Furthermore you can set MSEGs to trigger exclusively on key release (Set Mode to "Note off" instead of "Note On"). This allows you to do pretty much anything in the release stage.

Richard

dentnile · Post by **dentnile** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:53 pm

Kriminal wrote:
Yorrrrrr wrote:Could the MSEGs be enhanced in some way? Take, for example, the graphic multipoint envelopes on Image-Line's Harmor, that allow different kinds of curves and shapes to join them..

grab the line between points and move it around for diff curves

The only curve shape I manage to make look like a hockey stick, with the bend close to the one of the points, which one depends on direction of the line and direction of the pull.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:58 pm

Richard_Synapse wrote:Furthermore you can set MSEGs to trigger exclusively on key release (Set Mode to "Note off" instead of "Note On"). This allows you to do pretty much anything in the release stage.

Richard

Yes, indeed. I did not notice that haha

But..in that case, I guess I would have to use 2 MSEGs...one 'Key on' for the attack and decay stages, and one 'key off' for the release stage, to mimic the envelope I posted above.

I'm starting to grasp the concept on these MSEGs. It's just that I'm used to Harmor style envelopes, which are amazingly powerful.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu May 15, 2014 6:06 pm

dentnile wrote:
Kriminal wrote:
Yorrrrrr wrote:Could the MSEGs be enhanced in some way? Take, for example, the graphic multipoint envelopes on Image-Line's Harmor, that allow different kinds of curves and shapes to join them..

grab the line between points and move it around for diff curves
The only curve shape I manage to make look like a hockey stick, with the bend close to the one of the points, which one depends on direction of the line and direction of the pull.

the curve is relative to the position of the points. It can only curve in a certain way. If they are on a similar lever you will get that effect.Try moving the points up/down and then moving the curves around

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Thu May 15, 2014 9:04 pm

I'm 99.9% sure the stepping isn't coming from my controller. All other synths in my collection (and I have dozens) have no audible stepping with pitchbending or MIDI modulation*. You can hear Diva in my audio example, no audible stepping with the pitchbend. That was recorded in the same environment.

The stepping also happens when you use pressure to modulate stuff. I was modulating sync freq with after touch and it was responding terribly. It sounds like it's sampling MIDI modulation about 6 times a second and then interpolating. That isn't really fast enough and I like the idea of being able to increase this!

Having a variable samplerate for MIDI modulation is also a nice idea in general, because you can use it to get sample+hold effects and chip-style modulation. That would actually turn this problem into a positive and it's a feature I'd like to see on more synths.

* the exception to this rule is of course, when you set such a wide range to be modulated, that the MIDI resolution of 128 values becomes audible. This isn't a synth design problem but a MIDI spec one.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Thu May 15, 2014 9:13 pm

Teksonik wrote:I also get the stepping when using the pitch bend on DUNE 2's gui as well as when using my Axiom contoller but I never use a pitch bend wheel slowly enough to notice any stepping and rarely use a bend range more than +2 -2 probably due to the fact that I'm primarily a guitar player at this point so bending up/down a whole tone is natural. I can't think of a case where I'd need to slowly increase or decrease pitch enough to notice the stepping but I see Rich has offered a solution so everybody should find a setting they like.............

Actually, it's quick modulation that fails at the moment. Slow ramps of pitch or any other modulation will get smoothed over by Dune's interpolation, and the relatively low samplerate can catch the contour. It's when you need a quick modulation, like a sync sweep controlled by midi, that the system currently falls down, IMO.

I rarely use pitchbends of an octave or more, but for other modulation types, I like to push it as far as I can go

Also, for clarity, I haven't had a problem with stepping in Dune 2's knobs, GUI or internal modulation. It's just the MIDI modulation.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Thu May 15, 2014 9:21 pm

Here's a final example. Both of these sounds are Dune 2. The first one is me moving the sync knob on a basic sawtooth patch. The second one is me modulating the sync frequency with aftertouch via the mod matrix. The difference is day and night

https://soundcloud.com/sendy/dunesteps-2

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Thu May 15, 2014 10:30 pm

I can confirm the issue with Aftertouch to Sync Freq here. Sounds like Rich is working on a solution......

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:45 am

Knob movements via mouse (or MIDI controller) have their own smoothing, that should be fine. Aftertouch smoothing needs some work it seems, will be fixed soon.

Regarding PB/MW, forgot to add a good buffer size is important, something like 256-512 samples should be ideal, and give a swift and smooth response already. For those who want yet more smoothing we'll probably add an option as I wrote earlier

Richard

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Fri May 16, 2014 2:29 pm

I will ask again .
Dune 2 demo ...when the gui is showing ...windows taskmanager is showing a constant 99 ´% cpu usage ..
Only when gui is showing ...
Runnning on win xp sp 3
anyone else ..
Developer ???

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Fri May 16, 2014 2:37 pm

What are your system specs (processor, audio card/driver), and which host software do you use ?

Richard

Chris-S · Post by **Chris-S** » Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm

Is following possible with Dune2?

Simple delay of one beat. Initial sound 100% left, one bar (1/1) delayed signal 100% right.
I experimented with PingPong delay, but first delayed signal is always on same side as inital signal (feedback=zero).

Chris

DUNE 2 is out now!!