KVR Audio

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:37 pm

WilliamK wrote:I saw you guys listed Wusik EVE, just a quick comment (and shameless promo, sorry): Wusik 4000 comes with all Wusik EVE Sounds and is Windows and MAC 32 and 64 bits native.

Now, I could check out what Paraphonic is and maybe even implement it on Wusik 4000 if people want it.

Yes yes yes!

The most precise the list will be, the most useful it will be.

And a new paraphony on Wusik 4000 would very certainly interest many people!

On OSX, is it VST and AU? Or only VST? (just a question to have the best precisions in the list above)
And perhaps...RTAS?

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:44 pm

A suggestion, William...

I were you, I'd take the opportunity of this intervention to add the "64" logos at the Windows Logo and the OSX logo in the product page of EVE.

WilliamK · Post by **WilliamK** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:46 pm

Wusik 4000 is VST and AU, thanks for asking.

Tomorrow I will check how I can implement paraphony (if possible) for Wusik 4000 and Wusik 8000.

There are other strings related samples from Wusik Station ported to Wusik 4000, so there's a good selection of vintage analog strings and also acoustic strings.

WilliamK · Post by **WilliamK** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:47 pm

Ah, Wusik EVE does not have that, only Wusik 4000 which is our newer project.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:57 pm

WilliamK wrote:Ah, Wusik EVE does not have that, only Wusik 4000 which is our newer project.

Hmmm... So... my correction to say "Yes" to 64-bits about EVE in the list was a bit hasty?

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Sun May 18, 2014 11:04 pm

BlackWinny wrote:Hum... You're half-right... and half-wrong.

Yes, you're right his emulations are not sample based.

And... no, you're wrong for the other side: they can't be paraphonic (in my humble opinion) since the reference manual and it's addendum don't talk at all of paraphony, so I think Reaktor doesn't manage the paraphony.

I am right.

Unless your definition of paraphonic is totally different.
And Reaktor can go so low level that you can achieve way more than what is in the manual.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Mon May 19, 2014 12:19 am

Mutant wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:Hum... You're half-right... and half-wrong.

Yes, you're right his emulations are not sample based.

And... no, you're wrong for the other side: they can't be paraphonic (in my humble opinion) since the reference manual and it's addendum don't talk at all of paraphony, so I think Reaktor doesn't manage the paraphony.

I am right.
Unless your definition of paraphonic is totally different.
And Reaktor can go so low level that you can achieve way more than what is in the manual.

Hello friend!

No no, I think that we have exactly the same technical definition. I'm 55 (not centimeters but years old ) and I played paraphonic string synths (amongst others) at the age of 18 in 1977.

Simply... I was not sure by just looking at the GUI (some GUI are somewhat misleading sometimes) and furthermore... I'm not that documented on Reaktor

... the only product that I have from Ni being FM8 (that I really love).

So Ok. It's corrected now.
For the three entries.

Hum... Please... I think that you know Kontakt, don't you? Myself I don't use it at all. And thus... on Kontakt I don't have any doc at all once again.

So, a question: is Kontakt able to feature (say, imitate) the paraphony? And if yes, how could I learn if these Kontakt Ensembles that I have set in the list... are themselves "paraphonic"? I think that the one doesn't imply systematically the other... all depending certainly of the guy who has made the pack. So I'm a bit troubled for these Kontakt Ensembles... For me, Kontakt is somewhat similar to a black-orange flight box-recorder which is as inaccessible and mysterious as if it was somewhere in the depth of an ocean...

waltercruz · Post by **waltercruz** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:05 am

Hey BlackWinny, I think that you're confusing Reaktor and Kontakt!

Kontakt is a sample player, but Reaktor is far more powerful.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:12 am

waltercruz wrote:Hey BlackWinny, I think that you're confusing Reaktor and Kontakt!

Kontakt is a sample player, but Reaktor is far more powerful.

Yes yes, it's a bit what I'm saying to myself. But as I hear so many beautiful laudatory sentences about Kontakt, I was wondering if... perhaps... a miracle...

But no. Native Instruments seems to have still efforts to do to make miracles.

yessongs · Post by **yessongs** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:34 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DmAh0dObI

now someone just needs to identify all the sounds and backward engineer everything in this song

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon May 19, 2014 7:46 am

BlackWinny wrote:So here is the result of two days searching for the best emulations of String Synths. I have probably passed beside some other goodies which are therefore missing here, but I have deliberately omitted all those which are totally anecdotical.

......................

[*]Xils-Lab - V+

KVR page

Website page

Last update (YYYY-MM-DD): 2013-05-28

Paraphony: Yes

Windows 32-Bit: Yes

Windows 64-Bit: Yes

OSX VST: Yes

OSX AU: Yes

OSX RTAS:Yes

AAX: Yes

Price: €149

Comments: I think it's you, Laurent, who wrote "The XILS V+ combines a Vintage 10 band Vocoder, Supreme Top Octave Divider based Strings and Human Voices, or any sophisticated layering of these three elements." then "The Top Octave Divider Oscillator provides a unique sound that no samples, or other simple synthesis techniques can reproduce. Emulating the T.O.D, without any aliasing on the whole frequency range, with its pitch and waveform modulation, was a real challenge, worthy of XILS-lab. We are very proud of this effort and offer it to you for your inspiration and enjoyment." then "The XILS V+ would not however be a real XILS-lab instrument if we did not add a lot of functions and possibilities that were not present in the original machine, some giving access to its internal circuitry and parameters. And some being totally new.". I have just to add this: I strongly advice everyone to visit the webpage of V+ and all its tabs "Features", "Audio", "Video", "Demo", "TopOctaveDivider", "Vocoder Tutorial", and "Contest"!

[/list]

The things seem now a bit clearer...

Thanks;

Yes I think it might be Worth to read the V+ pages to see how much work and extreme care was needed to emulate precisely the original machine, and how it was done.

V+ is not *only* about the Strings though, it also offers these analog Human Voices AND the analog Vocoder, with its very distinct color. + a lot of goodies ( try the water mode of the Vocoder on drums or percs, and you'll know what I mean ) And all this alltogther, with almost inifinite polyphony. The exact sound of an era.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:06 pm

BlackWinny wrote: Hum... Please... I think that you know Kontakt, don't you? Myself I don't use it at all. And thus... on Kontakt I don't have any doc at all once again.

So, a question: is Kontakt able to feature (say, imitate) the paraphony? And if yes, how could I learn if these Kontakt Ensembles that I have set in the list... are themselves "paraphonic"? I think that the one doesn't imply systematically the other... all depending certainly of the guy who has made the pack. So I'm a bit troubled for these Kontakt Ensembles... For me, Kontakt is somewhat similar to a black-orange flight box-recorder which is as inaccessible and mysterious as if it was somewhere in the depth of an ocean...

Hi.

I said good bye to Kontakt i think before it got upgraded to version 2, so i don't know what it can do now.

But if by paraphonic we mean that all oscillator divided voices go to just one envelope generator, then the software emulation without preprogrammed paraphonic structure would have to fire up the envelope generator for the first played note, then take the current envelope time value from that first envelope and fire up a second envelope that would start exactly at that time shift, skipping the part of the attack phase before the shift.
And the other way around if we release the first note and keep holding the second note.

WOK · Post by **WOK** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:52 pm

BlackWinny wrote:While we are at it... could you tell me what is the exact date of the last update?

2010 May 04

And then there is the little brother ESTRIMA from 2013-01-30

WOK · Post by **WOK** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:17 pm

Mutant wrote:But if by paraphonic we mean that all oscillator divided voices go to just one envelope generator, then the software emulation without preprogrammed paraphonic structure would have to fire up the envelope generator for the first played note, then take the current envelope time value from that first envelope and fire up a second envelope that would start exactly at that time shift, skipping the part of the attack phase before the shift.
And the other way around if we release the first note and keep holding the second note.

The Solina in fact has a release envelope for each key (called "sustain"). This also smoothes out the attack, while the real adjustable attack (="crescendo") is only done by one envelope/VCA for all keys. It is a real tricky design.

The Reaktor ensemble is great! Just one small thing isn't correct: the Viola and Violin share the same sound, just one ovctave apart. This is not correct, the filter circuit for the two sounds is different in the hardware.

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:52 pm

WOK wrote:The Solina in fact has a release envelope for each key (called "sustain"). This also smoothes out the attack, while the real adjustable attack (="crescendo") is only done by one envelope/VCA for all keys. It is a real tricky design.

The Reaktor ensemble is great! Just one small thing isn't correct: the Viola and Violin share the same sound, just one ovctave apart. This is not correct, the filter circuit for the two sounds is different in the hardware.

Cromina sounds better than this Reaktor ensemble, but still doesn't do the individual Solina instruments right. Why don't you make a Cromina II with accurate waveforms?

Best Ensemble/Divide-Down/Paraphonic VST/AU Synth