Komplete 10 Date - Oct. 1 2014

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BDeep wrote:
robojam wrote:to me (owning K9) the upgrade to K10 isn't worth it as well, upon first view.
I think you really get your money's worth if you skip one each time.
£16 per product is pretty expensive, huh? :-)

Of course it totally depends on what you think you'll actually use, but really even 1 upgrade's worth is a good deal. Of course 2 is an even better deal - a bone fide crazy bonkers deal this time round for sure at £7 per new product - but the idea that even the full retail upgrade price £189 for

DRIVER
DRUMLAB
KONTOUR
POLYPLEX
ROUNDS
SESSION HORNS
SUPERCHARGER
THE GENTLEMAN
THE GRANDEUR

is somehow expensive is, well, a little rich. It's pretty much the regular cost of 2 of (most of) those products, plus the Komplete Browser thrown in.

I'm all for people being selective though - it's never a great idea to just buy sacks of stuff if you really won't use them. That's an individual call for everyone's personal circumstances. But hats off to NI, imo in terms of bang for buck you can't fault the value of their software packages. Getting increasingly hard for others to Kompete...
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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So let's sum up their evolution. They used to have software that allowed browsing all of Komplete's presets at once which also did all kinds of cool routing and morphing and loading multiple plug-ins, including third party ones, which had an accompanying hardware controller with 8 knobs and buttons and good navigation functions. They discontinued it...

Now they have a plug-in wrapper that lets you browse all of Komplete's plug-ins again, but doesn't let you actually edit any hardware mapping or load multiple things or do cool morphing and routing or load third party plugs. Just browse presets and use the plug-ins. And now they have done what many wanted and made an accompanying keyboard with controls but unlike the previous discontinued hardware, this one only has 8 knobs but no 8 buttons and apparently no page names and has left/right arrows to go through pages one at a time instead of the nice parameter page scrolling of the discontinued software. And no switches/buttons mapped now I guess, just continuous controls.

Nice step back.

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As you know I'm a big fan of the 'discontinued software' - but to be philosophical about this, sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to go forwards again.

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noiseboyuk wrote:
BDeep wrote:
robojam wrote:to me (owning K9) the upgrade to K10 isn't worth it as well, upon first view.
I think you really get your money's worth if you skip one each time.
£16 per product is pretty expensive, huh? :-)

Of course it totally depends on what you think you'll actually use, but really even 1 upgrade's worth is a good deal. Of course 2 is an even better deal - a bone fide crazy bonkers deal this time round for sure at £7 per new product - but the idea that even the full retail upgrade price £189 for

DRIVER
DRUMLAB
KONTOUR
POLYPLEX
ROUNDS
SESSION HORNS
SUPERCHARGER
THE GENTLEMAN
THE GRANDEUR

is somehow expensive is, well, a little rich. It's pretty much the regular cost of 2 of (most of) those products, plus the Komplete Browser thrown in.

I'm all for people being selective though - it's never a great idea to just buy sacks of stuff if you really won't use them. That's an individual call for everyone's personal circumstances. But hats off to NI, imo in terms of bang for buck you can't fault the value of their software packages. Getting increasingly hard for others to Kompete...
Yeah, please understand that I still think Komplete is the deal of the century. It's just that, at first glance, there isn't enough in there for me this time around to upgrade. It may very well be for others. For instance, I don't or rarely use any of the Kontakt libraries. So that would leave the new Reaktor ensembles as the main draw. Maybe they're utterly fantastic and I'd still be tempted at some point, who knows!

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aMUSEd wrote:As you know I'm a big fan of the 'discontinued software' - but to be philosophical about this, sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to go forwards again.
I guess I can understand that from a software perspective but for hardware you need to really plan it out to cover future functionality. What I don't understand with this is that they nailed it with both Kore hardware and with Maschine. Now they release this as their control surface for the their entire line and it's just so underwhelming and doesn't seem to do what they previously did right. Not having a row of 8 buttons over/under the knobs seems for a start is poor design. I don't know yet exactly how the page scrolling works and if you can use one of the knobs but you need direct access to pages. When you have 8 buttons these can work with a modifier as page select (with page names). They've done all this before, they should know better.

But even past the easy obvious stuff that appears to be omitted, having 16 knobs with 16 LED buttons would be infinitely more useful. Then not only do you have parameter control, but you could use the buttons for arp/sequencers with the knobs for step values (FM8 arp? Reaktor sequencers etc.). Like the Arturia Origin. Only I'd imagine it stacked like the Novation SL.

I just find it frustrating as hell. They are in a perfect place to release something amazingly useful. The keyboard could do so much more with 16 knobs and 16 buttons. But they can't even match the usefulness of past products that they themselves designed.

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Encoders are touch sensitive - there are your 8 buttons.

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Not having a row of 8 buttons over/under the knobs seems for a start is poor design.
In principle I agree, however one of my main frustrations with Kore (much as I love it) was that the buttons are useful in performing live but not possible to automate which has always limited their usefulness for me.

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aMUSEd, do you have any vids on Youtube with you rocking Kore? Genuinely interested.

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EvilDragon wrote:aMUSEd, do you have any vids on Youtube with you rocking Kore? Genuinely interested.
Sorry - I don't really do YouTube.

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:As you know I'm a big fan of the 'discontinued software' - but to be philosophical about this, sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to go forwards again.
I guess I can understand that from a software perspective but for hardware you need to really plan it out to cover future functionality. What I don't understand with this is that they nailed it with both Kore hardware and with Maschine. Now they release this as their control surface for the their entire line and it's just so underwhelming and doesn't seem to do what they previously did right. Not having a row of 8 buttons over/under the knobs seems for a start is poor design. I don't know yet exactly how the page scrolling works and if you can use one of the knobs but you need direct access to pages. When you have 8 buttons these can work with a modifier as page select (with page names). They've done all this before, they should know better.

But even past the easy obvious stuff that appears to be omitted, having 16 knobs with 16 LED buttons would be infinitely more useful. Then not only do you have parameter control, but you could use the buttons for arp/sequencers with the knobs for step values (FM8 arp? Reaktor sequencers etc.). Like the Arturia Origin. Only I'd imagine it stacked like the Novation SL.

I just find it frustrating as hell. They are in a perfect place to release something amazingly useful. The keyboard could do so much more with 16 knobs and 16 buttons. But they can't even match the usefulness of past products that they themselves designed.
+1000

They already know people are willing to spend 1000 or more on good controllers with deep integration. I will for sure if it had at least 16-24 encoders plus buttons.

As you say buttons for dedicated to page selection would also be a much better compromise.

Hope they get it right in Mk2 because I really want something like that happening.
dedication to flying

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:So let's sum up their evolution. They used to have software that allowed browsing all of Komplete's presets at once which also did all kinds of cool routing and morphing and loading multiple plug-ins, including third party ones, which had an accompanying hardware controller with 8 knobs and buttons and good navigation functions. They discontinued it...

Now they have a plug-in wrapper that lets you browse all of Komplete's plug-ins again, but doesn't let you actually edit any hardware mapping or load multiple things or do cool morphing and routing or load third party plugs. Just browse presets and use the plug-ins. And now they have done what many wanted and made an accompanying keyboard with controls but unlike the previous discontinued hardware, this one only has 8 knobs but no 8 buttons and apparently no page names and has left/right arrows to go through pages one at a time instead of the nice parameter page scrolling of the discontinued software. And no switches/buttons mapped now I guess, just continuous controls.

Nice step back.
Now, I never owned Kore 2 so maybe I never got what it was about. But I was never interested in those features. Essentially I want a DAW and a synth (or sampler). If I want to use a plugin on a sound, I'll do it in the DAW, like I do for any sound from any source. It seems messy to have another tier, but like I say maybe I just never got it.

However, I LOVE the idea of a master database of every preset in every NI synth, which you can click and the right instrument loads to play it. The caveat - and it's potentially a big one - is how long does that take? If I audition 10 analogue synth basses which come from 10 different synths / plugins, does it take several seconds to load each one? If so, that would negate a lot of usefulness. The good thing about Kore / Kore Player is that it was instant - it contained all the engines to produce the sound. I'm hoping the Komplete Browser does something similar, then you press the edit button to load it in the synth or something.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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To answer your question: Yes, it will take several seconds to load up new synths (especially reaktor + ensemble) but if you install Komplete on a good HD or SSD the time browsing goes down by some margin. It's still not as slick as a single synth and browsing it's presets but that's to be expected.

In the old days it could take up to a minute per preset to browse through them.. at least on the old emulator and akai samplers.. oh and the large programs I had for the Kurzweil. So a couple of seconds worth of waiting isn't too bad.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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bmanic wrote:To answer your question: Yes, it will take several seconds to load up new synths (especially reaktor + ensemble) but if you install Komplete on a good HD or SSD the time browsing goes down by some margin. It's still not as slick as a single synth and browsing it's presets but that's to be expected.

In the old days it could take up to a minute per preset to browse through them.. at least on the old emulator and akai samplers.. oh and the large programs I had for the Kurzweil. So a couple of seconds worth of waiting isn't too bad.
Ah, shame - have you actually played with the thing, bmanic?

I guess besides SSD (which I have already) is to have the results listed by plugin. So you go through a dozen from Massive, then onto FM8, then Razor etc. That way you're not reloading a new synth every single patch.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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One thing I don't get: while browsing does the keyboard presents any info on instrument/preset (as Push) or you have to look at the computer screen?
dedication to flying

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EvilDragon wrote:Encoders are touch sensitive - there are your 8 buttons.
You mean they click when you push them? I thought touch sensitive just meant it new when you were touching it. I didn't think this meant they worked as buttons. Obviously you wouldn't want a button triggered every time you touched a knob.

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