When is Urs going to finally release that Diva MIDI controller? Kickstarter?

[justin3am]

I humbly suggest taking a look at Nektar Technology's Panorama series controllers.
I spent quite a bit of time perfecting our plug-in maps for Diva, ACE and soon, Bazille. As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters and we create custom menu structures that make sound design intuitive (for example, when controlling Diva's oscillators, filters, envelopes and effects, the parameter mapping updates dynamically when you change modes to reflect the parameters which apply to the currently selected mode).

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase but we have plans to implement the plug-in map functionality in other DAWs as well.

[Uncle E]

As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters

Cool!

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase

Not cool!

Bitwig?

[aMUSEd]

I humbly suggest taking a look at Nektar Technology's Panorama series controllers.
I spent quite a bit of time perfecting our plug-in maps for Diva, ACE and soon, Bazille. As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters and we create custom menu structures that make sound design intuitive (for example, when controlling Diva's oscillators, filters, envelopes and effects, the parameter mapping updates dynamically when you change modes to reflect the parameters which apply to the currently selected mode).

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase but we have plans to implement the plug-in map functionality in other DAWs as well.

Sounds like what you need is, like Kore, a subhost layer to cut out the inconsistencies between hosts.

[justin3am]

As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters

Cool!

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase

Not cool!

Bitwig?

That is a tricky question.
Right now, Bitwig use their own method of mapping plug-in parameters which is not compatible with our plug-in map system. Hopefully this will change soon. NDA prevents me from going into more detail.
In the meantime, you can create custom menu structures for Panorama in Bitwig studio with third-party plug-ins. And, as with the other DAWs we support, automation is used in place of standard MIDI messages, so you still get high-resolution parameter control.

[justin3am]

Sounds like what you need is, like Kore, a subhost layer to cut out the inconsistencies between hosts.

While it would open a lot of possibilities, it would also pose some challenges. Maintaining a VST/AU host is no small task and we are less then 10 full time employees. At the moment, interfacing with plug-ins through the host DAW's control surface system allows us a lot of flexibility without having to worry about keeping up with plug-in formats. I wish I could say more because we have a lot of exciting stuff coming soon.

[Uncle E]

While it would open a lot of possibilities, it would also pose some challenges. Maintaining a VST/AU host is no small task and we are less then 10 full time employees.

Given that, I'm surprised you didn't make the LX's function the same as the Panoramas. Doing that doubled your workload.

[justin3am]

While it would open a lot of possibilities, it would also pose some challenges. Maintaining a VST/AU host is no small task and we are less then 10 full time employees.

Given that, I'm surprised you didn't make the LX's function the same as the Panoramas.

The LX's do function the same as Panorama. The Impact LX series use the same plug-in maps that we made for Panorama. However, the Impact LX series has a small three-digit, seven-segment display which isn't ideal for menu structures, so by default only the first 16 parameters from the Instrument home page are used. To make custom assignments easier, my co-worker Tim, came up with what we call "Grab Mode" for the Impact LXs. It allows the controller to learn the parameter assignments rather than relying on the host/plug-in for MIDI learn functionality.

[aMUSEd]

Sounds like what you need is, like Kore, a subhost layer to cut out the inconsistencies between hosts.

While it would open a lot of possibilities, it would also pose some challenges. Maintaining a VST/AU host is no small task and we are less then 10 full time employees. At the moment, interfacing with plug-ins through the host DAW's control surface system allows us a lot of flexibility without having to worry about keeping up with plug-in formats. I wish I could say more because we have a lot of exciting stuff coming soon.

I get that but it also makes you vulnerable because you are dependent on the host developers continuing to support your standards (or even getting on board in the first place). So far you only have Cubase on board as it is and Steinberg are notoriously fickle. I do understand why NI chose to design their controller around a host and create their own preset standard to go with it.

I would suggest looking at something like BigTick Zen as a "go between" plugin subhost and preset manager.

[justin3am]

I get that but it also makes you vulnerable because you are dependent on the host developers continuing to support your standards (or even getting on board in the first place). So far you only have Cubase on board as it is and Steinberg are notoriously fickle.

Steinberg haven't done anything for us. Everything we have done is based on their pre-existing control surface architecture. If they decide to make a change, we can change with them because our focus is on control surface support.

The nice thing about this approach is we can apply what we have done in Cubase to other DAWs, it just takes time.

I do understand why NI chose to design their controller around a host and create their own preset standard to go with it.

I would suggest looking at something like BigTick Zen as a "go between" plugin subhost and preset manager.

I appreciate the suggestion. As you know, I'm a Kore user myself and I definitely understand why they did what they did.
However, we are taking a different approach. While we haven't ruled out the possibility of a sub-host/interpreter plug-in, it's not in our plans right now.

[electro]

I humbly suggest taking a look at Nektar Technology's Panorama series controllers.

I was surprised at how weighty and good the controllers on the Panorama P6 felt compared to the others in the store. That Panorama line has a very high build quality.

[Iostream]

Another recommendation for Nektar, I use a P1 and have been very happy with it as a controller

[ChromeGhost]

I humbly suggest taking a look at Nektar Technology's Panorama series controllers.
I spent quite a bit of time perfecting our plug-in maps for Diva, ACE and soon, Bazille. As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters and we create custom menu structures that make sound design intuitive (for example, when controlling Diva's oscillators, filters, envelopes and effects, the parameter mapping updates dynamically when you change modes to reflect the parameters which apply to the currently selected mode).

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase but we have plans to implement the plug-in map functionality in other DAWs as well.

Ah Nektar sounds interesting. I like that you are moving towards the future an integrating colour screens on your devices. I may end up getting it. Looks good for reason and Cubase. The new Bitwig integration looks good too. Are there any plans for Logic or Ableton integration? Right now I have Maschine, and I plan on getting Maschine studio. I want to use maschine for program parts and my DAW for non-program parts. If you have plans for Ableton, it would be nice to use this along with my iPad running touchable 2. I may not even have to use my mouse with all those tools

[Uncle E]

Ah Nektar sounds interesting. I like that you are moving towards the future an integrating colour screens on your devices. I may end up getting it. Looks good for reason and Cubase. The new Bitwig integration looks good too. Are there any plans for Logic or Ableton integration? Right now I have Maschine, and I plan on getting Maschine studio. I want to use maschine for program parts and my DAW for non-program parts. If you have plans for Ableton, it would be nice to use this along with my iPad running touchable 2. I may not even have to use my mouse with all those tools

Interesting that you've brought up your iPad. Not to steal Justin's thunder (we appreciate you being here, Justin!) but an app might be a better option for DIVA because of the multiple configurations. How would you guys feel about that? If any of you are currently using iPad to control synth parameters, how do you feel about that vs. physical knobs and faders? I personally like the physical controls better but I honestly can't see myself spending the money it would take to get that done properly.

[Doc Brown]

I humbly suggest taking a look at Nektar Technology's Panorama series controllers.
I spent quite a bit of time perfecting our plug-in maps for Diva, ACE and soon, Bazille. As with Kore, the Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters and we create custom menu structures that make sound design intuitive (for example, when controlling Diva's oscillators, filters, envelopes and effects, the parameter mapping updates dynamically when you change modes to reflect the parameters which apply to the currently selected mode).

At the moment our plug-in maps only work in Cubase but we have plans to implement the plug-in map functionality in other DAWs as well.

Hi Justin.

Could you please explain the difference between "host" automation and "midi cc" automation? I am in the beginning stages of building a midi hardware controller for a great soft synth. I haven't decided between the Doepfer midi encoder or the livid instruments version.

I am going to map my analog knobs and faders to the software via the midi learn feature. My host Reaper also supports parameter learn even if the soft synth doesn't support midi "learn".

Is there any advantage to either method? Is the resolution the same for both?

Lastly, is the resolution basically 0-127 for pots and sliders using the Doepfer or the livid instruments midi interfaces?

Don't mean to hijack just seems like a good thread to ask this in.

Thanks.

[PAK]

Panorama series uses host automation rather than MIDI CCs for high resolution control of plug-in parameters

So it's all endless rotaries with a software layer? What resolution do the sliders transmit? I noticed a demo where it seems some LED's continuously blink on selection. There *is* a way to disable that, right? (Which doesn't involve black sticky tape ) Is the main LCD display TN based (Not IPS/VA/OLED etc)?

The software layer part also concerns me. Have you done anything special to avoid issues things like Automap have? Examples - it can't wrap the Diva VST3 without graphics corruption, it crashes too many plugins to mention (even common ones like Reaktor) and can causes host crashes in Cubase.

Can Nektar handle sending a mixed mode of CC and host automation simultaneously? The reason is many plugins, including Diva, don't present some things as host automation parameters, but will still allow CC control. (D'oh! Whyyy!)

Is there a way you can link multiple units so they're treated as one? If you did go down this road, extender units (the same as a P1 but minus the LCD and transport) would also be really nice to have. If this were possible I would definitely buy a P1 and some extenders btw..

The number one problem with generic controllers is people aren't realistic about the amount of controls required to provide a good user mapping experience. By "good" I mean being able to fully program a synth, rather than wiggle a cutoff knob or some extreme basics. I would consider double the amount of controls, of the P1, as a good starting point..

I also have some questions about more advanced controller logic. I see that the Nektar is able to execute a chain of commands. Is there a way for users to create these themselves? More importantly.. (and the most important feature to me, other than having enough controls to map to!) Does Nektar's system support nested controls?

Since this was a Diva thread, I might as well ask a final Diva specific question.. As you may know, the Octave and Detune controls share the same automation parameter, even though each control expects different behaviour.

Octave needs to add or subtract 12 in 5 steps (-24,-12,0,+12,+24). The difficulty is caused by the fact that the host automation presents the range as +/-30, and the detune knob is busy controlling the extra +/-6 of this range. On Automap, when you have (eg) Octave at +12 and Detune at +1, this makes the total +13. When Octave adds another +12, to step to +24, it sees the value generated will actually be +25, which is outside its allowed +/-24 range. This causes it to jump to the next allowed value and reset the detune position to centre.

I just wondered if your controller contains enough logic to be able to work around this rather "unique" design decision? Thanks if you could answer these