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Predator or Massive

Rob Papen Predator
24
37%
Native Instruments Massive
41
63%
 
Total votes : 65
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pdxindy
KVRAF
 
13194 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:53 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

samsam wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Igro wrote:All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else.


That is true... yet when lots of people say the same thing..................


......... it may be because they have no real opinion or evidence of their own so they are resorting to perceived wisdom......


maybe and maybe not... but if a lot of people are saying it, it is at least reason to take a good hard listen oneself...
samsam
KVRAF
 
1908 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Postby samsam; Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:58 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

pdxindy wrote:
samsam wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Igro wrote:All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else.


That is true... yet when lots of people say the same thing..................


......... it may be because they have no real opinion or evidence of their own so they are resorting to perceived wisdom......


maybe and maybe not... but if a lot of people are saying it, it is at least reason to take a good hard listen oneself...


Absolutely.

Error alert: I should have written 'received wisdom' not 'perceived'
dune_rave
KVRian
 
1095 posts since 22 Jun, 2006, from Hungary

Postby dune_rave; Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:43 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

I say Predator, because its sound is similar to Albino.
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Xenos
KVRAF
 
2422 posts since 9 Mar, 2004, from Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Postby Xenos; Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:35 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

IMHO, Predator sounds better, but Massive has some nice features that Predator doesn't. For crazy textural stuff, Massive kicks a**. For phat, warm basses and smooth leads, Predator has the advantage. The filters and onboard effects in Predator are better by far, and you can use Predator's effects as a separate plugin to liven up another synth (or audio track).
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kiezum
KVRist
 
426 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby kiezum; Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:39 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

I use both synths. Hard to pick one. I prefer the workflow of Massive. The way modulation assignments work is brilliant. Predator is a workhorse with tons presets. I never thought about it, but they are indeed very alike.

BTW Arturia's Oberheim emulation is excellent.
Lotuzia
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9566 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:19 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

pdxindy wrote:
Igro wrote:All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else.


That is true... yet when lots of people say the same thing..................


So a lot of people certainly either did not took the necessary time to program Massive in a proper way/direction, or just repeat what other people say.

Massive can sound as smooth as silk, as lush as needed, and you can also make it sound metallic, if needed, in a very soft way.

Here are 2 of the audio demos of my Wave Grooves soundset for Massive. So that people can make their own opinion about Massive supposed harshness, etc etc.

Wave Grooves Step 3

Wave Grooves Step 2

I used massively the Mod Wheel and Aftertouch in real time when I played the clips ....( Just assign them once to the two macros 1/2 and it will work for all presets )

Its not always the synths, its also the men behind them :shrug:
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pdxindy
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13194 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:01 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

Lotuzia wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Igro wrote:All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else.


That is true... yet when lots of people say the same thing..................


So a lot of people certainly either did not took the necessary time to program Massive in a proper way/direction, or just repeat what other people say.


Just because you took the time to coax a different tone does not mean it lends itself to it. Lots of people say it is harsh, or cold because it tends to go in that direction... and like you said, you have to work at it to go somewhere else. Sure you can, but if that is what someone wants, then they may prefer to select a synth that more readily does that.
ouroboros
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7895 posts since 16 Apr, 2003, from -on the outside looking in

Postby ouroboros; Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:11 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

Xenos wrote:IMHO, Predator sounds better, but Massive has some nice features that Predator doesn't. For crazy textural stuff, Massive kicks a**. For phat, warm basses and smooth leads, Predator has the advantage. The filters and onboard effects in Predator are better by far, and you can use Predator's effects as a separate plugin to liven up another synth (or audio track).


This was my thought as well, though I prefer massive for the creative flexibility and routing.
Also - your thoughts on the envelopes? From memory, I recall Massive as having a faster attack possibilities, but not sure.
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pdxindy
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13194 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:52 pm Re: Predator vs Massive?

Lotuzia wrote:I used massively the Mod Wheel and Aftertouch in real time when I played the clips ....( Just assign them once to the two macros 1/2 and it will work for all presets )


Aftertouch has its own dedicated modulator (Modwheel, Pitch, Breath and Expression were left out entirely) so there is no specific need to assign Aftertouch to Macro 2...

So yes, midi learn Modwheel on Macro 1, and then every preset already has a variety of parameter assignments to Macro 1. So if you just want modwheel only on filter cutoff on some preset, you have to find all the parameters where macro 1 is assigned and disable them. You cannot just say, oh I like this preset but would like Modwheel on a particular parameter and just do it.

Oh, and maybe I also like what the preset designer assigned to Macro 1 and if I want to keep it, I have to move those assignments to another Macro... or maybe on that preset I would rather use my expression pedal, so I have to again transfer the assignments from one Macro knob to another Macro knob that has the Expression pedal midi learned (and delete whatever is on that Macro) in order to keep them. Like Modwheel, it is not possible to just assign Expression pedal directly.

The only way to assign any parameters to the Pitch wheel is to also midi learn the Pitch wheel to a 3rd Macro. But then you can never use the Pitch wheel just for pitch on other presets without tweaking them because it will control that Macro on every preset whether you want it or not.

With Massive, if you want to make use of the Pitch wheel, Mod wheel, Expression Pedal, and or Breath Controller, you have to permanently assign the four of them to 4 macros and then remake all the presets macro assignments (even if you want to just use some of them occasionally).

It is a poor design choice for people who regularly use these controls in creative ways and potential buyers should know because most other synths you might buy today do not have this limitation. It is easy to assume that it's possible with any modern synth and not realize the extra work Massive requires.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
9566 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:02 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

pdxindy wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Igro wrote:All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else.


That is true... yet when lots of people say the same thing..................


So a lot of people certainly either did not took the necessary time to program Massive in a proper way/direction, or just repeat what other people say.


Just because you took the time to coax a different tone does not mean it lends itself to it. Lots of people say it is harsh, or cold because it tends to go in that direction... and like you said, you have to work at it to go somewhere else. Sure you can, but if that is what someone wants, then they may prefer to select a synth that more readily does that.


Actually it doesnt. Its what people say according to the factory library, wich focus on aggressive sounding instruments, based on NI choices. If people would take the time to make their own presets, or try some soundsets like ours, they would probably have another POV on MAssive. Btw imo a synth *doesnt go in a direction*, or *lends itself etc etc*. Its a machine, an instrument, it just does what humans want, not the opposite. Thats why I said taht people behind the machines are the most important part.

Massive can be used like a pseudo VA very easily for example, so anybody who can program a basic VA can tame its sound and can make it sound different.
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tehlord
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7746 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:13 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

Igro wrote:Predator is easier to use, but Massive is much more versatile. All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else. Put any good saturation plugin, if you are not satisfied. Massive has a stereo unison too.


The stereo unison in it is it's worst feature imo. The unison sounds awful in Massive.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
9566 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:16 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

pdxindy wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:I used massively the Mod Wheel and Aftertouch in real time when I played the clips ....( Just assign them once to the two macros 1/2 and it will work for all presets )


Aftertouch has its own dedicated modulator (Modwheel, Pitch, Breath and Expression were left out entirely) so there is no specific need to assign Aftertouch to Macro 2...

So yes, midi learn Modwheel on Macro 1, and then every preset already has a variety of parameter assignments to Macro 1. So if you just want modwheel only on filter cutoff on some preset, you have to find all the parameters where macro 1 is assigned and disable them. You cannot just say, oh I like this preset but would like Modwheel on a particular parameter and just do it. .... ....
....
.

Well what you said first was : " As I said, you cannot directly modulate a parameter via Modwheel, Pitch wheel, Breath or Expression in Massive. .....If you like to play in realtime with a keyboard, then it is a big hassle. .......I mention it when Massive comes up because it never occurred to me that you could not directly assign Modwheel to cutoff "

So provided you used the trick I mentioned you can assign mod wheel to cut off in a flash, especially when you design your own presets from scratch. And its very easy to play in real time with a keyboard ( because this is just what I made for the audio demos I posted ) Maybe you find it hard to use a macro knob wich is permanently assigned to mod wheel to assign the cut off to it. I dont. Ymmv. In any case I use Massive as a real time playing expressive beast, and this is my experience. :shrug:
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

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Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
9566 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:21 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

tehlord wrote:
Igro wrote:Predator is easier to use, but Massive is much more versatile. All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else. Put any good saturation plugin, if you are not satisfied. Massive has a stereo unison too.


The stereo unison in it is it's worst feature imo. The unison sounds awful in Massive.

I agree it for sure sounds different than the usual unison. It can lead to very interesting textures and stereo scenes though when used carefully. Maybe not for the genre you'd want it to though. But for ambient/lounge/cinematic stuff it can add a personal touch wich is sometimes very welcomed. -ime-
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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tehlord
KVRAF
 
7746 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:23 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

Lotuzia wrote:
tehlord wrote:
Igro wrote:Predator is easier to use, but Massive is much more versatile. All those comments like "digital" "harsh" is just someone's opinion and nothing else. Put any good saturation plugin, if you are not satisfied. Massive has a stereo unison too.


The stereo unison in it is it's worst feature imo. The unison sounds awful in Massive.

I agree it for sure sounds different than the usual unison. It can lead to very interesting textures and stereo scenes though when used carefully. Maybe not for the genre you'd want it to though. But for ambient/lounge/cinematic stuff it can add a personal touch wich is sometimes very welcomed. -ime-



You're probably right. When I was programming Massive I was targeting 'that' specific market and it was horrible.

When I do more ambient patches I tend to lean towards Omnisphere or more lately Synthmaster.
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
 
3212 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby Touch The Universe; Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:44 am Re: Predator vs Massive?

Just sold predator so decided to upload a bank of some sounds I created last couple of years. Good for Goa and smooth Legato Leads. Try the presets with zimmer in the name and let me know if you have any similar. Smoothest lead I've heard from the Predator. Peace ~Tim

http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=dl&id=2139
High Quality Soundsets with a generous amount of presets for Lush-101, Hive, Electra 2, Diversion, Halion, Largo, Rapid, Dune II, and Spire.
http://www.touch-the-universe.com/
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