KVR Audio

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:20 pm

From what I gather the vst3 sdk allows the plugin to see if the DAW is vst3 able or not and use the appropriate version of vst in that host. It also automatically switches the vst2 version from older projects to the vst3 if you have it installed.
I personally love it......Exponential Audio recently also coded their vst3 plugins that way. Steinberg stuff works that way, Waves work that way and I am sure there may be a few others I am forgetting.
rsp

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:47 pm

zvenx wrote:From what I gather the vst3 sdk allows the plugin to see if the DAW is vst3 able or not and use the appropriate version of vst in that host. It also automatically switches the vst2 version from older projects to the vst3 if you have it installed.
I personally love it......Exponential Audio recently also coded their vst3 plugins that way. Steinberg stuff works that way, Waves work that way and I am sure there may be a few others I am forgetting.
rsp

With the current Waldorf plugin updates you are able to use both VST2 and VST3 plugins in the same host.

If the Waves plugins in a certain host automatically use the VST3 plugin and disable the VST2 it is a strange behavior IMO.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:58 pm

Ingonator wrote:
zvenx wrote:From what I gather the vst3 sdk allows the plugin to see if the DAW is vst3 able or not and use the appropriate version of vst in that host. It also automatically switches the vst2 version from older projects to the vst3 if you have it installed.
I personally love it......Exponential Audio recently also coded their vst3 plugins that way. Steinberg stuff works that way, Waves work that way and I am sure there may be a few others I am forgetting.
rsp
With the current Waldorf plugin updates you are able to use both VST2 and VST3 plugins in the same host.

If the Waves plugins in a certain host automatically use the VST3 plugin and disable the VST2 it is a strange behavior IMO.

It is actually the intended behaviour of vst3. Remember its the one steinberg wants you to use, and they have stopped supporting and I think even distributing vst2 sdk....
Think about it, they want everyone to use vst3, but still have backward compatibility.

rsp

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:03 pm

zvenx wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
zvenx wrote:From what I gather the vst3 sdk allows the plugin to see if the DAW is vst3 able or not and use the appropriate version of vst in that host. It also automatically switches the vst2 version from older projects to the vst3 if you have it installed.
I personally love it......Exponential Audio recently also coded their vst3 plugins that way. Steinberg stuff works that way, Waves work that way and I am sure there may be a few others I am forgetting.
rsp
With the current Waldorf plugin updates you are able to use both VST2 and VST3 plugins in the same host.

If the Waves plugins in a certain host automatically use the VST3 plugin and disable the VST2 it is a strange behavior IMO.
It is actually the intended behaviour of vst3. Remember its the one steinberg wants you to use, and they have stopped supporting and I think even distributing vst2 sdk....
Think about it, they want everyone to use vst3, but still have backward compatibility.

After removing the VST3 WaveShell plugin Studio One indeed is able to detect and use the VST2 plugins now.
To be honest i usually don't really use VST3 plugins anyway (except for beta testing purposes). I keep a backup of the VST3 plugin file if i need it.

Maybe i was confused as using both VST2 and VST3 in the same host works with the current Waldorf plugin updates (Largo, PPG 3.V, Waldorf Edition).

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:06 pm

Hi, Actually most vst2/vst3's I have. u-he,slate,voxengo,dmg audio, klanghelm etc....... has the (I really want to say wrong behaviour, but will be PC) behaviour you describe, but that afaik isn't how they should be coded (and I am pretty pretty sure on this.

rsp

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:29 pm

zvenx wrote:Hi, Actually most vst2/vst3's I have. u-he,slate,voxengo,dmg audio, klanghelm etc....... has the (I really want to say wrong behaviour, but will be PC) behaviour you describe, but that afaik isn't how they should be coded (and I am pretty pretty sure on this.

rsp

Tbh i rarely or almost never used VST3 plugins in the past but had to use/test them with the Waldorf updates (where it seems to be different).
With other Plugins i use either was no VST3 plugin or i did not install it.

UPDATE:
Just asked the developer of te Waldorf updates and the usual behavior indeed seems to be that VST3 is preferred when both VST2 and VST3 is installed. Anyway with the Waldorf plugins this behavior seems to be different indeed.
In most other cases the ID of both the VST2 and VST3 plugins seems to be the same which does not seem to be the case with the Waldorf plugin updates.

Looks like i learned something new today...

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:38 pm

since 3 is bigger than 2, and 3 is closer to 11. hence better......vst3>vst2
(this really was meant as a joke, cause I know along with ilok/cp and a few others such phrases are red meat on kvr)
rsp

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:40 pm

audientronic wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Hi,

i just noticed a strange problem with the Codex VST2 plugin (at windows 7 64-bit).

While the VST2 works nicely in Live 9 64-bit and also the VST3 works in Studio One 2.6.3 64-bit (+ also the AAX plugin seem to work in PT11) i could not find the VST2 plugin in Studio One.

UPDATE:
Te VST2 also works in Reaper 4.7 while it is recogniszed as a FX plugin and not as an Instrument which could be confusing when searching the plugin in Reaper. Also checked if it is installed as a FX in Studio One but did not find it there.

Same issue with the Waves Element VST2 plugin in Studio One. I just sent an email to Waves support.

UPDATE:
Just checked witth the Trial version of Cubase 7.5.30 64-it. Seems to be the same problem as in Studio One, VST3 works and VST2 not (for both Codex and Element).
None of my Waves plugs show up as VST2 in Studio One. On a Mac here.

Waves only support VST3 for all their plugs in Studio One Mac

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:47 pm

woodsdenis wrote:
Waves only support VST3 for all their plugs in Studio One Mac

On Windows (like i have learned today...) it seems to be like mentioned above. If you installed both VST2 and VST3 the VSt2 plugins will be disabled in a host that supports both (like Studio One). As mentioned above when i delete the VST3 WaveShell Plugin the VSt2 plugin works again in Studio One (at least on Windows 7).

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:36 pm

Spitfire31 wrote:As I understand it, there's a choice between authorising Codex on a 'poor man's ilok', any FAT 32 formated USB stick, or directly on the computer boot disk.

Does anyone know if Waves gives you two authorisations (for the laptop and for the syudio machine, for instance), if I go the hard disk auth route?

/Joachim

No, they do not give you 2 authorizations.

The 'poor man's ilok' can allow you to move from one system to another but not be able to use 2 systems at the same time.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:53 pm

After programming some "typical" analog sounding patches which actually patches whic actually seem to sound quite nice in Codex i now changed to doing some more tor less "typical" wavetable sounds.
I found that with the LPF some of the wavetables could sound quite harsh and/or having a too big low end (which of course could be nice for some patches).
Instead of using the EQ which is possible too i found i could get some nice results using the 2-Pole BPF which compatred to the 4-Pole BPF does not cut out as many frequencies while removing the very low and very high ones that could lead to an unwanted result (for example with the same patch and chord the 2-Pole BPF cuts off at aroun 10 kHz while it cuts off at around 4 kHz with the 4-pole BPF).

I also found that the Unison could sound really great with pads even if it does not have additional control except an On/Off switch. It seems to have a good default value for detune and stereo widening, at least for my taste. This could make a patch sound "bigger".
I admit that the Unison due to missing controls is not capable of typical "Supersaw" like sounds but this is not really what the synth was made for IMO.

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:33 pm

Ingonator wrote:
I also found that the Unison could sound really great with pads even if it does not have additional control except an On/Off switch.

Unison will always add something "special" sonically to Pads, Atmospheres, Keys, sometimes Bass, due to how it treats the wavetable.

With Dune 2 and Serum, you can control with considerable details how "Unison" functions.

Codex does not allow for this for some reason.

Although it does sound good, being able to make choices to better control this unison feature would make considerable different when programming presets.

Maybe something Waves will consider adding to Codex.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:38 pm

PatchAdamz wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
I also found that the Unison could sound really great with pads even if it does not have additional control except an On/Off switch.
Unison will always add something "special" sonically to Pads, Atmospheres, Keys, sometimes Bass, due to how it treats the wavetable.

With Dune 2 and Serum, you can control with considerable details how "Unison" functions.

Codex does not allow for this for some reason.

Although it does sound good, being able to make choices to better control this unison feature would make considerable different when programming presets.

Maybe something Waves will consider adding to Codex.

I actually like the "Multisaw" feature in DUNE 2 for pad sounds and prefer it over the "real" Unison there. Very nice that the feature works for all waveforms and not just for the Sawtooth.

Indeed it would be nice if Waves adds a few additional controls to the Unison in Codex whilem as already mentioned the "default" setting alraedy seems to be quite useful (at least IMO).

In my free bank for PPG Wave 2.V (and PPG 3.V) i have used the QUAD mode (which is like an Unison) in combination with the BASIS knob (= Stereo Spread) which could lead to some quite "big" sounds compared to the "normal" modes.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:45 pm

How does the tone of this one compare to serum? I know i am in the vast minority there but there is something about it's core sound which no matter what wavetables are used, just sounds cold to me. For those who agree and have tried codex, is it any different in that regard?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:50 pm

TheoM wrote:How does the tone of this one compare to serum? I know i am in the vast minority there but there is something about it's core sound which no matter what wavetables are used, just sounds cold to me. For those who agree and have tried codex, is it any different in that regard?

As mentioned a few times here by different people the basic sound of Codex (or at least the filter) is more "typical analog" while the wavetables could also add a typical digital sound to it.
As i mentioned earlier in this thread and also found with my first "experiments" Codex could be used for both typical analog and typical digital stuff.

I did not buy the bank of PatchAdams yet but AFAIK he includes examples of what i just mentioned.
The factory patches (there are really many, i don't know the exact amount) do show this too IMO.

The sound of the wavetables also depends on the "Resolution" setting where lower values lead to a more "Lo-Fi" and/or harsher sound. Actually as i mentioned earlier both Codex and Serum seems to support the same format for the wavetables (WAV file) and you could load the WAV files from Serum into Codex (or just load a sample to do resynthesis of that one). To get them sound closer i found you have to reduce the "resolution" value in Codex which means a less smooth interpolation. The basic sound of the wavetable could be also changed by activating the "Formant" switch and using the corresponding knob (avialble for both oscillators).

a cool feature in Codex is also the built in wavetable scanning feature (one in each oscillator) which allows wavetable scanning without using one of the envelopes. You could use an envelope or LFO if you set the "Speed" knob in the oscillator to 0. In that case with the "Start" fader you could also just use a single waveform if needed. While moving the fader a display with the number of the current waveform will pop up but disappear if you no longer move it. There are also values like e.g. "2.3" which seems to correspond to waveforms created by automatic interpolation (a wavetable usually has up to 64 waveforms).

Waves Codex Wavetable Synth