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Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

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Ingonator
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11082 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:39 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

wagtunes wrote:Question:

These "extreme" sounds that are being requested. How often do you actually hear them in real world application?

I don't know about everybody else, but back in the day when prog rock ruled and everybody had a Moog or an Oberheim. I don't recall hearing any "extreme" sounds. Most of what I heard was comparable to the videos I just listened to in this thread.

So what exactly is the point of doing these "extreme" sounds?


I guess this is why this thread was called a "a real world test" and not "an academic test" (or something similar).

FWIW i am am no big friend of "effect sounds" that are rarely usable in tracks which is why i rarely programmed them myself.
I usually tried (and try) to do sounds that are actually playable which mostly also involves "bread & butter" sounds like e.g. Synth Brasses and Synth Strings. Those kinds of sounds could usually be used in many contexts like has been proven in countless examples in the past and synths like e.g. the OB8/Xa, Matrix 12, Jupiter 8, Prophet 5, Memorymoog, Synthex and some others were perfect for those. I also like "typical" Osc Sync sounds which were possible with most synths i just mentioned (from those i had only owned a real Jupiter 8 myself, from Oberheim i had a Matrix-1000, Marion ProSynth and a virtual analog OB-12).

Talking about "extreme" sounds on many VA synth also also real analo s i liked to do some "Acid like" sounds with high resonance while of course only a few sounded similar to a real TB-303 which is quite unique in that respect.
Also doing some Reonance sweeps in basses and pads is really nice from time to time and not just for testing purposes (while the way those sounds are done usually is sligtly different to how it is done in certain tests).
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, BS2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Legend, Avenger, Saurus 2, Diva, Syn'X 2, Komplete 10, VC 5, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2 / PT 12.6
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analoguesamples909
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1641 posts since 28 Dec, 2007

Postby analoguesamples909; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:45 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

chk071 wrote:The thing is, it always leave a possibility that the comparison tests have somehow being made so that one synth looks better, just to prove something.


yes you are somewhat right about this-but there is also a middle ground IMO. Eg I think its ok to use Diva 'drift' parameter to get the sound closer. but seeing as real analogue is the standard - it makes sense to me to match the analogue sounds as closely as possible with the emulation. However I have seen many analogue enthusiasts perhaps not giving Diva the best chance - I cannot say Im a saint but I try very hard to make a fair test.

In this test I am a bit biased because I decided about half way thru making comparisons - to make a preset pack to sell. Therefore naturally I present the best examples. However in reality I have made tests (one last year) where I made a load of sounds I expected Diva to struggle with-and actually I haven't found any obvious clanger that sounds clearly and obviously inaccurate. I then presented them blind to a group of people regarded as experienced enthusiasts to try to get a unanimous correct answer. I even TOLD them what to look for! Despite this - less than half got the answer correct...
Last edited by analoguesamples909 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Classic OB presets for u-he Diva -> http://swanaudio.co.uk/
Z1202
KVRian
 
740 posts since 11 Apr, 2002

Postby Z1202; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:45 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

Ingonator wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Question:

These "extreme" sounds that are being requested. How often do you actually hear them in real world application?

I don't know about everybody else, but back in the day when prog rock ruled and everybody had a Moog or an Oberheim. I don't recall hearing any "extreme" sounds. Most of what I heard was comparable to the videos I just listened to in this thread.

So what exactly is the point of doing these "extreme" sounds?


I guess this is why this thread was called a "a real world test" and not "an academic test" (or something similar).
I like "fantasy test" (vs. "real world test") better. You are trying to imply that extreme sounds have no musical purpose. Did you even bother to listen to e.g. my examples?
Last edited by Z1202 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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IncarnateX
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2722 posts since 25 Jan, 2009, from Forgotten Realms

Postby IncarnateX; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:46 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

Z1202 wrote: Are you trying to imply that, unless I have proved my point myself, it is nonsense "by default"? :D


Not at all, just that it will remain hypothetical and as such speculation untill you do. Till then it is worth nothing more than the exact opposite hypothesis. :shrug:
Z1202
KVRian
 
740 posts since 11 Apr, 2002

Postby Z1202; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:48 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

IncarnateX wrote:
Z1202 wrote: Are you trying to imply that, unless I have proved my point myself, it is nonsense "by default"? :D


Not at all, just that it will remain hypothetical and as such speculation untill you do. Till then it is worth nothing more than the exact opposite hypothesis. :shrug:
Till it's proved or disproved you can't claim that softsynths are universally convincing emulations of analog. As long as this conclusion is not drawn from insufficient tests, fine with me :D
pdxindy
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11837 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:49 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

wagtunes wrote:Question:

These "extreme" sounds that are being requested. How often do you actually hear them in real world application?


All the time... different people listen to different types of music
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
11837 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:51 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

Z1202 wrote:
IncarnateX wrote:
Z1202 wrote: Are you trying to imply that, unless I have proved my point myself, it is nonsense "by default"? :D


Not at all, just that it will remain hypothetical and as such speculation untill you do. Till then it is worth nothing more than the exact opposite hypothesis. :shrug:
Till it's proved or disproved you can't claim that softsynths are universally convincing emulations of analog. As long as this conclusion is not drawn from insufficient tests, fine with me :D


Hey, everyone is free to draw whatever conclusion they want and they don't need your approval to do so...
pdxindy
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11837 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:53 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

rod_zero wrote:I love DIVA, my favorite synth.

I am happy that it compres and even surpases in sound, IMHO, some of the old dinosaurs.

BUt the more I learn to play instruments the more I wish Diva also existed as hardware. I am considering doing it my self using Surface Pro or a Brix Pro, an steinbberg audio interface and building the caising, similar to what Urs presented some years ago.

There is simply something more practical (for players) and easier to use about hardware instruments.


I love the sound of Diva too... there s something just 'right' about it... pleasing, rich and organic.

I so wish I had a hardware Diva and Bazille! ;-)
Synthetic Wav
KVRist
 
409 posts since 27 Feb, 2014, from France

Postby Synthetic Wav; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:53 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

i rechecked the first video and please tell me diva is synth B , i really like more the sound , A sound kinda dead/ lifeless in comparaison , could be cause the patch seems better programed with the envelops and filter in B , more suited hmmm you try to fool us :D

anyway B is the best sounding there wihtout any doubt for me, the sound sample of A would need more work to sound right in my mixs and i doubt i couuld touch B punch and clarity with processing.
Last edited by Synthetic Wav on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:16 am, edited 9 times in total.
Analog electronic drum samples (Free demo pack)
http://www.syntheticwav.com
Z1202
KVRian
 
740 posts since 11 Apr, 2002

Postby Z1202; Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:54 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

pdxindy wrote:
Z1202 wrote:
IncarnateX wrote:
Z1202 wrote: Are you trying to imply that, unless I have proved my point myself, it is nonsense "by default"? :D


Not at all, just that it will remain hypothetical and as such speculation untill you do. Till then it is worth nothing more than the exact opposite hypothesis. :shrug:
Till it's proved or disproved you can't claim that softsynths are universally convincing emulations of analog. As long as this conclusion is not drawn from insufficient tests, fine with me :D


Hey, everyone is free to draw whatever conclusion they want and they don't need your approval to do so...
Oh, really? How about me trying to divide 60 by a few "randomly picked" integer numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,10,20,30 and concluding that "it has been experimentally proven" that any integer number is a divisor of 60? :D
This example is not mine (don't remember from where it is) and is a direct parallel of what's going on in this thread.

I mean, I agree to what you're saying regarding the freedom, as long as they are not trying to pass on this conclusion as an "experimentally established and proven result" :D
Examigan
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3881 posts since 15 Sep, 2005, from East Coast of the USA

Postby Examigan; Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:12 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

Urs wrote:Show me a well serviced OB-8 for $3000 on eBay or elsewhere... I want one badly!


:hihi:

me too

This site has some great synths, but they are pretty expensive
http://www.rlmusic.co.uk/rlm3/

8)
Last edited by Examigan on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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IncarnateX
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2722 posts since 25 Jan, 2009, from Forgotten Realms

Postby IncarnateX; Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

Z1202 wrote:Till it's proved or disproved you can't claim that softsynths are universally convincing emulations of analog.


No but I can claim that the specific examples at hand with regard to the specific synths in question are quite convincing. In contrast I lack any examples from you or other that show that the opposite can also be true with regard to the synths in question.
Z1202
KVRian
 
740 posts since 11 Apr, 2002

Postby Z1202; Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:43 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

IncarnateX wrote:
Z1202 wrote:Till it's proved or disproved you can't claim that softsynths are universally convincing emulations of analog.


No but I can claim that the specific examples at hand with regard to the specific synths in question are quite convincing.
No argument about that, same here. But as I wrote, I don't care too much about those type of sounds. They have been good enough for me since Moog Modular V2 (I don't claim they have been reproducible with enough precision back then, just that musically they were sufficiently good for me). That's why I didn't bother listening through the entire video.

IncarnateX wrote:In contrast I lack any examples from you or other that show that the opposite can also be true with regard to the synths in question.
That's true, but that doesn't destroy the validity of my point (that there is a large spectrum of sounds not covered by those tests) does it?

Edit: I'm just anticipating that after this test (should it fail) it will be spread as a universally proven fact, that Diva is as good as real analog. And I'm trying to prevent that until tests with a better coverage are run :D At least there should be a reservation, that for "bread and butter" analog sounds Diva is as good as a real thing (should it really be proven)

Edit2: I don't have anything against Diva, but I wouldn't enjoy an undeserved humiliation of the analog gear :D
Last edited by Z1202 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
chk071
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12417 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:52 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

pdxindy wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Question:

These "extreme" sounds that are being requested. How often do you actually hear them in real world application?


All the time... different people listen to different types of music

Yes. Especially ambient music has a lot of those "extreme" sounds, all the filter blips, extreme pitch modulation, snappy sequences with lots of resonance... i wouldn't at all call it non-real world.
It's not "news" anymore, it's "infotainment".
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
7768 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:58 am Re: Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

chk071 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Question:

These "extreme" sounds that are being requested. How often do you actually hear them in real world application?


All the time... different people listen to different types of music

Yes. Especially ambient music has a lot of those "extreme" sounds, all the filter blips, extreme pitch modulation, snappy sequences with lots of resonance... i wouldn't at all call it non-real world.


Then by all means, somebody show me where Diva falls apart on these sounds. I have an open mind. Let me hear the difference. Why is it that nobody can do that?

It's so easy to say "Diva can't do extreme sounds as good as hardware" but nobody has yet to back that up. In the meantime, the above test has proven that Diva is just as good at bread and butter sounds as hardware.

So those of you who are still not convinced and claim Diva still lacks when going to extreme, please, back it up.

Somebody at this forum MUST own one of these old analog beasts who can do this test for us especially since so many have been outspoken enough about this to claim that nothing has been proven.

I'm waiting. Convince me or let those of us who have heard what we've heard and are convinced that Diva is just as good as hardware for "most" applications enjoy our little victory.
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