KVR Audio

Ghost Dog · Post by **Ghost Dog** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:42 pm

Are there any software synths that, in our opinion, sound organic/alive/like an actual, acoustic instrument (in terms of livelihood, not timbre)?

For me, honestly, only Spire is half-way there. Others (including the venerable Diva), are somehow not. Unfortunately, there's no real soul in them, I would say. They just aren't there yet.

What's your take on this? (And sorry if there's already been a thread like this.)

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:54 pm

No, no, this is the very first thread of its kind.

To be honest, I don't understand your question. A synth, by its very nature, differs from any acoustic instrument in a number of ways. I wouldn't even try to compare the two. To some, the holy grail of synthesis is to replicate real instruments, but I've always felt that that was a dead end. I'd rather embrace them for what they are than to try to make them into something they're not.

Now, as for sounding organic or alive, a lot of that's down to the programming. You can make completely static patches, and you can make very complex timbers that constantly evolve over time. A lot of synths will do for that.

In case you meant to say "hardware synths" instead of "acoustic"... do a search in the forum ("hardware vs software") and find lots of fascinating debates, edifying information, and serious and mature deliberation.

liv · Post by **liv** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:59 pm

Absynth.

Ghost Dog · Post by **Ghost Dog** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:02 pm

ariston wrote:No, no, this is the very first thread of its kind.

....

Yeah, I guessed so. Sorry.

ariston wrote:.... To be honest, I don't understand your question. A synth, by its very nature, differs from any acoustic instrument in a number of ways. I wouldn't even try to compare the two. To some, the holy grail of synthesis is to replicate real instruments, but I've always felt that that was a dead end. I'd rather embrace them for what they are than to try to make them into something they're not ....

This is what I was getting at (although I do believe my question wasn't unclear).

For example, the CS-80 synth is a synth (and not an acoustic instrument) in every way, shape or form, but it sounds simple and natural.

Today's software synth (and this is coming from someone who's a big fan of software synths and owns both DUNEs, Spire, the entire Korg collection and more) ... sound good .... some of the really good .... but even though you can program them in such a way that makes for an evolving sound .... it still doesn't feel right (at least to my ears/brain/heart).

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:03 pm

I don't know what you mean. Spire doesn't sound any more "alive" than my other synths.

Ghost Dog · Post by **Ghost Dog** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:04 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote:I don't know what you mean. Spire doesn't sound any more "alive" than my other synths.

I guess we all hear/feel things differently.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:08 pm

To make a long story short: I think the difference is in your mind. I don't think you'd be able to hear the difference in a blind test. Especially with synths like Diva, Monark, the TAL stuff, the Xils stuff... not to mention the physical modelling synths. They're all very much "there".

raymondwave · Post by **raymondwave** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:11 pm

Roland SH-2 plugout sounds quite alive to me. If I understand the question as meant. NI Monark also. I like Spire, but don't really feel the sound is that alive.

Infinite5ths · Post by **Infinite5ths** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:15 pm

If you want it to sound more like a physical instrument - quirks, spatial interaction, hard-to-quantify-non-linearity, etc. - try running a synth (hardware or software) through Waves GTR3 Amp. Choose an amp/cabinet/mic combo that isn't distorted or overdriven. You'll get a fairly clean sound, but it will have some new dimension and character that makes it easier to fit in a mix, EQ, etc.

Waves has a free demo, so it won't cost you anything other than time to try it. And EveryPlugin.com has GTR3 on sale for <$50 right now (create an account to see price) if you decide you like this technique.

I tried Guitar Rig, Softube and a bunch of other amp sims before finally finding GTR3. There are many reasons why I did not like the others for synth-reamping work.

toothnclaw · Post by **toothnclaw** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Kontour, Bazille, Chromaphone, Aalto

ians · Post by **ians** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:47 pm

As above

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:48 pm

You and Fluffy should get together for drinks.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:51 pm

To me the topic sounds like it's about - how you can make modulations on velocity/aftertouch to just about anything.

This is alive in my view that timbre and dynamics reacts to how you play notes and ability to make that fit all over keyboard.

Modulation options for softsynths would be Waves Element as one candidate.
Hardware synths - KingKorg and the Nord's.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:03 pm

ariston wrote:To make a long story short: I think the difference is in your mind. I don't think you'd be able to hear the difference in a blind test. Especially with synths like Diva, Monark, the TAL stuff, the Xils stuff... not to mention the physical modelling synths. They're all very much "there".

I do know what the OP means with alive though, and I also would agree that Spire is one of the few soft synths which is there. It has something like a permanent sweet spot, while other soft synths are much more limited in that regard.

jackmazzotti · Post by **jackmazzotti** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:09 pm

liv wrote:Absynth.

absynth for sure as well as Kaleidoscope
but nothing tops the EaganMatrix (based on Kyma) inside the Haken Audio Continuum

Soft synths that really sound 'alive'