So have we gone all soft?
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- KVRAF
- 2897 posts since 3 Mar, 2006
Computers can do everything a synth can do, so for hardware instruments I'll stick to my basses and guitars and my drumkit, and use a midi keyboard and softsynths for a much more portable and more flexible synth/keys sound range.
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harmony gardens harmony gardens https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=12815
- KVRian
- 830 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Richland Center, Wisconsin
I've gone to all softsynths, and I'm glad I did. To me, they are easier to use, sound as good or better than hardware, and take up sooooooooo much less space!! There is more to a DAW that just the softsynths, too. Cost is a definate consideration, too.
I have quite a few of my old hardware things in storage, because they aren't worth enough to even bother selling, in a way. I keep thinking I'll use them, and that for the price I could get for them, i might as well keep them. I never really think of using them, though.
The quality of my work has improved dramatically, since I put this system together. I used to have great hardware, and mix to a DAT. Nobody had a DAT, so I always sent my work out on cassette. This is much much nicer, IMHO.
True there are some hardware synths out there that are better than what I was able to afford, back in the day, and some of them are highly prized. I'll take nothing away from that. I had an interesting recording session with a guy who was all enamoured with his vinatage Les Paul Guitar, and he wanted to record with it. He went on and on about how the fingerboards were just right, and how well it played. It may have been a vintage instrument, may have been played by someone famous, and may be rare, but to me, was the noisiest peice of junk I ever tried to make sound good. I know that's a bit OT for this discussion, but it taught me a lot.
I have quite a few of my old hardware things in storage, because they aren't worth enough to even bother selling, in a way. I keep thinking I'll use them, and that for the price I could get for them, i might as well keep them. I never really think of using them, though.
The quality of my work has improved dramatically, since I put this system together. I used to have great hardware, and mix to a DAT. Nobody had a DAT, so I always sent my work out on cassette. This is much much nicer, IMHO.
True there are some hardware synths out there that are better than what I was able to afford, back in the day, and some of them are highly prized. I'll take nothing away from that. I had an interesting recording session with a guy who was all enamoured with his vinatage Les Paul Guitar, and he wanted to record with it. He went on and on about how the fingerboards were just right, and how well it played. It may have been a vintage instrument, may have been played by someone famous, and may be rare, but to me, was the noisiest peice of junk I ever tried to make sound good. I know that's a bit OT for this discussion, but it taught me a lot.
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- KVRAF
- 4807 posts since 10 Feb, 2006 from Stockholm, Sweden
I've skipped hardware. Takes too much space no matter how good the hardware sound.
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digitalmessiah digitalmessiah https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=45221
- KVRist
- 361 posts since 21 Oct, 2004 from sunny florida, baby!
i'm actually slowly recording more hardware nowadays. why? most of my friends have Reason and everybody is starting to sound the same.
i have synths/modules that they dont have.
i have synths/modules that they dont have.
be part of the solution, not the problem
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- KVRian
- 665 posts since 7 Jan, 2003 from somewhere between 50 and 60Hz
the only "hardware" sound generator I've ever had is a quite laughable - a roland MC-505 "groovebox"
When I got it the sounds in it were already dated by 5 years
I sold it, and not long after discovered VSTs. I now own some wicked plugins, like Guru, Surge, impOSCar, Zero Vector, Ohmies FX and many more. Currently selling a few unused plugs in the marketplace, because my problem (like many others) is that I've gathered together too much software over the years and not learnt each properly = no productivity
That's the real argument of hardware over software, not sound quality like it once was - the argument that if you've spent so much money on hardware then of course you're gonna try to make the most of it. Considering the affordability of software, and the large amount of quality freeware around, software can offer way too many choices and too much to learn.
I wish I'd realised this 3 or 4 years ago, as I would have produced alot more music if I hadn't constantly been on a mission to find the latest and greatest plugins. And my credit card would have been happier to.
When I got it the sounds in it were already dated by 5 years
I sold it, and not long after discovered VSTs. I now own some wicked plugins, like Guru, Surge, impOSCar, Zero Vector, Ohmies FX and many more. Currently selling a few unused plugs in the marketplace, because my problem (like many others) is that I've gathered together too much software over the years and not learnt each properly = no productivity That's the real argument of hardware over software, not sound quality like it once was - the argument that if you've spent so much money on hardware then of course you're gonna try to make the most of it. Considering the affordability of software, and the large amount of quality freeware around, software can offer way too many choices and too much to learn.
I wish I'd realised this 3 or 4 years ago, as I would have produced alot more music if I hadn't constantly been on a mission to find the latest and greatest plugins. And my credit card would have been happier to.
hehe, yes, yes, Software hooked to no talking keyboards, yet they still recieve messages-
- KVRer
- 11 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
i love this thread so much ive read every post up to here;
...and now im replying.
im old too. and i make music. and i have lots of plugins. and lots of hardware synths. the partner i make music with is "all soft" and that made me envy his ability to instantly recall a track. so i went slightly more soft. and i am still reliant on hardware for a couple reasons:
1.) instant inspiration and output. in sonar, i have a template setup for tracks for my hw synths like k2500, nord, virusTI, andromeda, proteus2k, dmpro, etc.. So when i want to do a new song, i hit new song and go. and in a few minutes, i have a drum track, synths, bass, etc. no hassles. i cant do that with softsynths (yet)
2.) stability. i keep my computer meticulously up to date as you have to do these days. and its still not rock solid. ive read hundreds of posts online to say the same thing, so i stand by this: you can never really have a perfectly stable system, so just resign yourself to dealing with slight system instability. translation: hit "save" a lot, and definitely turn on autosave.
im sure i will always have hardware, and until midi controller manufacturers call me and listen to what i have to say, i think i will always use them for their immediate interface. since i grew up on hardware, i can point this out: hardware is unconciously instantly limiting you, whereas software tries to do everything. the simple inflexibility of hw makes you force yourself to be creative to make good pleasing music and maximize the gear. take for example an Alesis SR16, which is by todays software standards a joke. but if you just had that and you were just starting out, you could do amazing things with it because you were that limited from the start, and you knew that, and you were ok with that. to be honest, ive heard much more interesting things coming out of akai s950's and old roland s-50's than anything ive heard from kontakt (yet)--- which is a MUCH more powerful and "better sounding" sampler. you can also use it on a train/plane/taxi. but to my point: unlimited flexibility limits you by giving your brain too many options. we, as computer musicians, have to force ourselves to learn our hardware/software and force ourselves not to be caught up in the infinite permutations of what we can do.
dont get me wrong, ive fallen victim to it too- only on the hardware side. when i used to collect analog synths, i got so surrounded by them that my music output sorta grinded to an abrupt halt. and i learned.
so now im both ways. occasionally a bassline creeps out of Oddity. Sometimes, the Arturia Minimoog fits perfectly and works better than the andromeda. and i will try to be more creative. i love software synths and what they can do. i hate using a mouse to move the frequency knob up just a tad. its uninspiring. and mapping CC values is equally unmusical and uninspiring. so i will cut down on my plugins. having 20,000 plugins is not creative. but having ideas is and ways to flesh them out is creative.
so my new mantra will hopefully be: i will unlimit myself by limiting myself.
i would like to encourage you all to make more music, any way that you can.
...and now im replying.
im old too. and i make music. and i have lots of plugins. and lots of hardware synths. the partner i make music with is "all soft" and that made me envy his ability to instantly recall a track. so i went slightly more soft. and i am still reliant on hardware for a couple reasons:
1.) instant inspiration and output. in sonar, i have a template setup for tracks for my hw synths like k2500, nord, virusTI, andromeda, proteus2k, dmpro, etc.. So when i want to do a new song, i hit new song and go. and in a few minutes, i have a drum track, synths, bass, etc. no hassles. i cant do that with softsynths (yet)
2.) stability. i keep my computer meticulously up to date as you have to do these days. and its still not rock solid. ive read hundreds of posts online to say the same thing, so i stand by this: you can never really have a perfectly stable system, so just resign yourself to dealing with slight system instability. translation: hit "save" a lot, and definitely turn on autosave.
im sure i will always have hardware, and until midi controller manufacturers call me and listen to what i have to say, i think i will always use them for their immediate interface. since i grew up on hardware, i can point this out: hardware is unconciously instantly limiting you, whereas software tries to do everything. the simple inflexibility of hw makes you force yourself to be creative to make good pleasing music and maximize the gear. take for example an Alesis SR16, which is by todays software standards a joke. but if you just had that and you were just starting out, you could do amazing things with it because you were that limited from the start, and you knew that, and you were ok with that. to be honest, ive heard much more interesting things coming out of akai s950's and old roland s-50's than anything ive heard from kontakt (yet)--- which is a MUCH more powerful and "better sounding" sampler. you can also use it on a train/plane/taxi. but to my point: unlimited flexibility limits you by giving your brain too many options. we, as computer musicians, have to force ourselves to learn our hardware/software and force ourselves not to be caught up in the infinite permutations of what we can do.
dont get me wrong, ive fallen victim to it too- only on the hardware side. when i used to collect analog synths, i got so surrounded by them that my music output sorta grinded to an abrupt halt. and i learned.
so now im both ways. occasionally a bassline creeps out of Oddity. Sometimes, the Arturia Minimoog fits perfectly and works better than the andromeda. and i will try to be more creative. i love software synths and what they can do. i hate using a mouse to move the frequency knob up just a tad. its uninspiring. and mapping CC values is equally unmusical and uninspiring. so i will cut down on my plugins. having 20,000 plugins is not creative. but having ideas is and ways to flesh them out is creative.
so my new mantra will hopefully be: i will unlimit myself by limiting myself.
i would like to encourage you all to make more music, any way that you can.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
My all-software microphone plug-in isn't going as well as I'd hoped, so I'll probably have to bite the bullet and buy an old-fashioned hardware mic in a month or two. :-(
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- KVRAF
- 25421 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I was away from music for some years so there is a long gap between hardware and software.
I currently use a KorgZ1 as my midi controller. I don't use the synth because editing it on that little screen with menus is no fun at all. I have not the slightest interest in going back to hardware when it comes to synths.
I also find the ability for small developers to create synths has resulted in a far more flexible and diverse range of vsti possibilities than what hardware offers.
Software has fewer hassles, is easier to control, edit, takes less space, is portable, uses less electricity and is plenty reliable. I haven't shut my audio computer down in 2 months. I can sit down and be playing music within 30 seconds. I currently stick to 3 vsti instruments as I quickly realized the problem of having too many and not being able to be fluid and creative with them when there are too many.
I like the idea of a control surface and as they mature, am sure I'll be buying one. For me, creative synth music has never been so inexpensive, high quality, and enjoyable as it is now with softsynths and host.
I currently use a KorgZ1 as my midi controller. I don't use the synth because editing it on that little screen with menus is no fun at all. I have not the slightest interest in going back to hardware when it comes to synths.
I also find the ability for small developers to create synths has resulted in a far more flexible and diverse range of vsti possibilities than what hardware offers.
Software has fewer hassles, is easier to control, edit, takes less space, is portable, uses less electricity and is plenty reliable. I haven't shut my audio computer down in 2 months. I can sit down and be playing music within 30 seconds. I currently stick to 3 vsti instruments as I quickly realized the problem of having too many and not being able to be fluid and creative with them when there are too many.
I like the idea of a control surface and as they mature, am sure I'll be buying one. For me, creative synth music has never been so inexpensive, high quality, and enjoyable as it is now with softsynths and host.
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- KVRAF
- 2897 posts since 3 Mar, 2006
Software programs don't weigh as much as rack synths. It's a no-brainer for playing live (people who don't trust software synths live are either paranoid or don't have the right setup)
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
i've gone almost completely to software. my hardware synths havent seen any use in ages. its a shame since they're great synths, but they're just collecting dust. the only one that sees any regular use is my WSA1, but thats only because i use it as a master controller. im not using its engine at all. in fact, the only non-software instruments that i play for themselves, rather than as controllers, are my basses and guitars. for synths and samples, everything is software for me now.
the only hardware effects im using are my two pod XT's (bass and guitar) and an ebs unichorus. my kaoss pad 2 is plugged back in again, but only as a controller.
one thing that i guess has made the shift to software easier for me is that i was never much of a real time tweaker. i usually only used the knobs on my hardware synths for programming. so i dont miss having dedicated knobs and i've been fine with trading them, and all the burried menus of digital hardware, for the nice big displays of softsynth guis.
also, while some hardware still (imho) sounds better than software, certainly not all of it does. so for the most part i think that the playing field has become pretty level. at least level enough for me to not worry about it at all, especially in a mix.
i keep thinking about selling off a whole bunch of the hardware that surrounds me, but i've been hanging onto it just in case i get back into it again. i also have some sentimental attachments to some of this gear. i've been quite lazy too and just dont feel like bothering with shipping stuff.
its questionable whether or not i will get back into hardware synths though since i typically find software to be easier to work with, much easier to program, and thanks to the comparitively low prices of software i can get access to many kinds of sounds and synthesis types that would still be out of my reach in the hardware world...which keeps me buying more software instead of hardware.
one thing i've been considering doing is making more presets on my hardware specifically for the purpose of using them for sampling and resynthesis experiments. at least then i'd be putting the stuff to use again.
...or i'll eventually just sell the stuff.
-ugo
the only hardware effects im using are my two pod XT's (bass and guitar) and an ebs unichorus. my kaoss pad 2 is plugged back in again, but only as a controller.
one thing that i guess has made the shift to software easier for me is that i was never much of a real time tweaker. i usually only used the knobs on my hardware synths for programming. so i dont miss having dedicated knobs and i've been fine with trading them, and all the burried menus of digital hardware, for the nice big displays of softsynth guis.
also, while some hardware still (imho) sounds better than software, certainly not all of it does. so for the most part i think that the playing field has become pretty level. at least level enough for me to not worry about it at all, especially in a mix.
i keep thinking about selling off a whole bunch of the hardware that surrounds me, but i've been hanging onto it just in case i get back into it again. i also have some sentimental attachments to some of this gear. i've been quite lazy too and just dont feel like bothering with shipping stuff.
its questionable whether or not i will get back into hardware synths though since i typically find software to be easier to work with, much easier to program, and thanks to the comparitively low prices of software i can get access to many kinds of sounds and synthesis types that would still be out of my reach in the hardware world...which keeps me buying more software instead of hardware.
one thing i've been considering doing is making more presets on my hardware specifically for the purpose of using them for sampling and resynthesis experiments. at least then i'd be putting the stuff to use again.
...or i'll eventually just sell the stuff.
-ugo
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
what's the story of the hardware salespeople?
or is it already somewhere in this honkin zombie thread?
or is it already somewhere in this honkin zombie thread?
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
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- KVRian
- 1372 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
I've got a K2000, and old tunes written for it, that I never got around to mixing/rendering properly. I'm going back to those old tunes and doing that now. I think if I didn't have those old tunes, I'd have sold the K2000 a while ago, so I could be at that point all software.
Once those old tunes are taken care of properly, I'll probably strive to only write with soft synths. If I'm happy with my output, I'll probably consider selling the k2000...
Once those old tunes are taken care of properly, I'll probably strive to only write with soft synths. If I'm happy with my output, I'll probably consider selling the k2000...
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- KVRAF
- 25421 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I think the better softsynths sound better than digital hardware synths. Hardware synths sometimes have more polished presets with better modulation setups.
Certainly for the same money, I can buy far more synth power, versatility and sound quality in software than hardware.
Certainly for the same money, I can buy far more synth power, versatility and sound quality in software than hardware.
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 30 Jun, 2005 from Fullerton
I've always had a small hardware setup so softsynths have been a serious plus. I'll always be able to use my older synths and/or sample them, and tweek them in softsynths. I'll never get around to discovering all the sound possibilities I have available now let alone use them all. Sounds can be reused too. I'm a guitarist and I'm not tired of the sounds they make, I think you're only really limited by your imagination.
Steve
Steve
