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AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
376 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:32 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
A proper monitor would accomodate any DAW's requirements not only Avenger's. I would not wish my enemies working on a 60-100 tracks project in 720p.

So you would rather enjoy this in 32"
Image

Over this on a 22"?
Image


Yes...I understand a 1080p monitor would be an all around benefit and I agree an upgrade is necessary,but again...until I demo'd Avenger,I got buy just fine and if there is some compelling reason why I may need a computer monitor,rather than a TV monitor for the Avenger VST and other VST's like it...then perhaps I will spend more for a computer-specific monitor over a TV monitor...eventually,at some point.
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
376 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:37 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
So you would rather enjoy this in 32"
Image

Over this on a 22"?
Image


By the way...how do you expect me to detect any discernible differences between these 2 screenshots,on an $80 32" 720 monitor?
I cannot see any differences...or perhaps this is the very point you are trying to convey to me?
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
376 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:48 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Okay...I did some poking around on Google and discovered that computer monitors have a significant higher resolution than TV(2580X2048)...which is a difference that I suppose I will notice.
What if though,I decided to just buy a 4K TV?Wouldn't that cover all of my entertainment and computer needs in a nutshell,for many years to come?
I mean...if I am going to spend the extra coin,in theory...a 4K TV would be the optimum choice,wouldn't it be?
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
164 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:13 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:I mean...if I am going to spend the extra coin,in theory...a 4K TV would be the optimum choice,wouldn't it be?


Unless you play a lot of high FpS games or do
Photo editing, probably yes. But this topic should probably be taken up somewhere else like tom''s hardware
sircuit
KVRist
 
221 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Postby sircuit; Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:51 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:
By the way...how do you expect me to detect any discernible differences between these 2 screenshots,on an $80 32" 720 monitor?
I cannot see any differences...or perhaps this is the very point you are trying to convey to me?


That's the whole point my friend: how can you discern ANYTING on that monitor? I mean, not being able to see a 720p print screen of a DAW (First image is how Ableton Live looks in a 720p screen) should really ring a bell that you're not using the correct display.

OK, this is my last intervention on this topic: I hope you can see in the first picture 3 colored lines - that is what you currently fit on 720p (regardless the size in inch): 3 tracks vertically and 8 bars of audio horizontally.
On a normal monitor, image below you can see a number of 8 tracks and 16 bars horizontally.
Now putting these two side by side, at this point you can realise that a 1200p monitor (dirt cheap regardless the inch) will give you a far better screen space to work with. Otherwise scrolling on both vertical and horizontal is absolutely insane on busy projects on such small space.

So why don't you keep your TV for whatever you want to watch at it and have a proper monitor for the real entertainment (making music)?

About TV vs monitors:
Monitors offer cleartype optimisations when rendering GUIs so anything on a monitor is clearer than a TV with the same resolution. As you go high in resolution with a TV, the cheap ones have slow processors (and the more expensive ones have all kind of optimisations which non of them are for displaying graphic user interfaces) and you'll notice artefacts when dragging windows on the screen (window lag, visible lines when refreshing screen), ESPECIALLY the 4K ones (just tested on my mid-range Samsung 4k 2016) - which are optimised for displaying movies, not graphic user interfaces.
And that's why you can see a smaller monitor more expensive than a TV. But you don't need the most expensive monitor. You need the cheapest 1200p monitor in the largest size in inch you can afford. It will still perform better than (smart) TV.
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bmanic
KVRAF
 
7810 posts since 3 Feb, 2003, from Finland, Espoo

Postby bmanic; Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:04 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

.. also, who the heck watches TV in 2017? :P

I haven't owned a TV since Finland went all digital. That was about a decade ago.
"I'm not trying to be anyone's savior. I'm just trying to think about the future and not be sad." - Elon Musk, TED talk April 2017
Lets dance
KVRist
 
79 posts since 8 Jun, 2017

Postby Lets dance; Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:30 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

bmanic wrote:.. also, who the heck watches TV in 2017? :P

I haven't owned a TV since Finland went all digital. That was about a decade ago.


Good for u :tu:
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
376 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:37 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
OK, this is my last intervention on this topic: I hope you can see in the first picture 3 colored lines - that is what you currently fit on 720p (regardless the size in inch): 3 tracks vertically and 8 bars of audio horizontally.
On a normal monitor, image below you can see a number of 8 tracks and 16 bars horizontally.
Now putting these two side by side, at this point you can realise that a 1200p monitor (dirt cheap regardless the inch) will give you a far better screen space to work with. Otherwise scrolling on both vertical and horizontal is absolutely insane on busy projects on such small space.

So why don't you keep your TV for whatever you want to watch at it and have a proper monitor for the real entertainment (making music)?

About TV vs monitors:
Monitors offer cleartype optimisations when rendering GUIs so anything on a monitor is clearer than a TV with the same resolution. As you go high in resolution with a TV, the cheap ones have slow processors (and the more expensive ones have all kind of optimisations which non of them are for displaying graphic user interfaces) and you'll notice artefacts when dragging windows on the screen (window lag, visible lines when refreshing screen), ESPECIALLY the 4K ones (just tested on my mid-range Samsung 4k 2016) - which are optimised for displaying movies, not graphic user interfaces.
And that's why you can see a smaller monitor more expensive than a TV. But you don't need the most expensive monitor. You need the cheapest 1200p monitor in the largest size in inch you can afford. It will still perform better than (smart) TV.


Okay....very well illustrated,that about sums it all up nicely,so thank you for that.As for having my existing TV monitor and a computer monitor in the same room...well...a 12'X11' bedroom that doubles as a studio,is problematic....so minimization is key.
I'll just have to resign my entertainment needs to my living room and keep my bedroom strictly for slumbering,recording,mixing and mastering. :idea:
xx JPRacer xx
KVRAF
 
1842 posts since 25 Jun, 2008, from Montreal, Canada

Postby xx JPRacer xx; Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:23 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61There's a lot of different things to look for in a LCD TV/monitor. 1st is the panel type. TN, VA, IPS and their derivatives. For non-gaming a IPS panel is best. You have good colors and the best viewing angle but contrast ratio is poor. VA you get (relatively)great contrast but poor viewing angle. TN is cheapest and you get very poor viewing angle with ok contrast and color. Then there's panel color bit-depth (6, 8, 10, 12 bit per color), response time, up-conversion quality (when you watch a 1080p bluray on a 1440p or 2160p tv/monitor good up-conversion can make a noticeable difference). There's also color gamut, gamma and white balance accuracy.

So there's a lot of things to consider. It's not because a tv/monitor is LCD that they're all created equal. Even tv/monitors with same panel can have vastly different picture quality depending on controlling electronics.
SLiC
KVRAF
 
2033 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:04 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Remember you will also need a powerful (expensive!) graphics card to drive a large 4K TV/monitor, modern scalable animate GUIs can often be quite GPU heavy.
godly
KVRian
 
697 posts since 22 May, 2013, from Gent, Belgium

Postby godly; Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:40 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

ljpro1 wrote:When will granular be released ?. . . . .

Looking forward to the basic needed functions also:
- Favs in list (star)
- sfz import
:P
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My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
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EnochLight
KVRian
 
676 posts since 20 Mar, 2012, from Detroit, MI

Postby EnochLight; Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:42 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Wasn't there supposed to be a teaser video of the coming update like... weeks ago?

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2138 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:00 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61

There is just too much going on with this program,to the point where not having the option to view different portions with different pages,is ridiculous.
I cannot work effectively and efficiently this way,so this is a total deal breaker for me.


Shame to miss out. Really. Avenger is the most exciting synth I've played in a long time.

I'm no great synth wizard, but in the course of using it reasonably often for 6 months, I'm still left gasping at the sounds and what I can do with them. It's amazingly creative, and increasingly I'm seeing I can fairly easily find the sound in my head I'm looking for, or something I can happily settle with.

I never had this with Spire, or Dune (though I love its wonderful warm sound)

Sometimes I have to struggle & lean in and go cross-eyed at the screen to see, which I don't enjoy, but the Avenger speedy workflow makes up for the nuisance of having to lean over. My creative workflow isn't broken the same way that I get with Spire's horrible menus, or Omni's hidden screens, or Dune's rubbish mixer, etc.

I don't have to squint for long because it's so quick to work with, nothing takes that long to do.

What's become quickly obvious is Avenger's scope being way beyond an EDM synth, as readers of this thread already know. It's the only synth I'm interested in other than Omnisphere, which still has some useful pads, guitar & hybrid sounds. But Omni's sounds are so static compared with Avenger's gloriously unendingly expressive motion & chaos. Expressive and responsive, like a guitar, or a violin.

I have some sympathy for AlesisVi61 but I really think it's worth saving for a system upgrade to get access to this synth, which is arguably the world's best in its class. We all have to save for some things.
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
mike_the_ranger
KVRer
 
28 posts since 16 Feb, 2017

Postby mike_the_ranger; Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:30 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:There is just too much going on with this program,to the point where not having the option to view different portions with different pages,is ridiculous.
I cannot work effectively and efficiently this way,so this is a total deal breaker for me.Besides which,an all-in-one workstation synth is fantastic,if one is just starting out and does not have much else to work with(but since I have a plethora of other synth VST's & such)...the Avenger VST is just overkill for me anyway

I have to say I agree to a certain degree. I thought I am the only one, but to me it feels like using avenger for bread & butter sounds is overkill. For example if I just want a supersaw, 90% of its controls are unused and unnecessary. i'd rather use a more lightweighted plugin with a non-cluttered ui for that kind of sounds. So it is meant to make crazy modulated funky stuff with it.
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2138 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

mike_the_ranger

I have to say I agree to a certain degree. I thought I am the only one, but to me it feels like using avenger for bread & butter sounds is overkill. For example if I just want a supersaw, 90% of its controls are unused and unnecessary. i'd rather use a more lightweighted plugin with a non-cluttered ui for that kind of sounds. So it is meant to make crazy modulated funky stuff with it.


Yes, I used to use S1's Mai Tai synth for this quick bread & butter synth work.

But every time I get around to producing (not writing) the tune, I find the basic synth isn't interesting enough. Maybe it's too static, maybe it needs something extra to make it fit better in the arrangement, maybe it's just too thin, etc.

So I don't buy into this workflow any longer. It's old school.

Nothing is "bread & butter" anymore. Bread & butter is another word for "sound like the other guy", and not like the tune you've got in your head.

Using Avenger as a start synth is easy enough as it loads with a straight saw and one osc. What could be simpler?

I have a similar thing with Kontakt, which is a slow old bugger to load.

I use S1 Presence Sampler maybe to get started as it's so fast. But once the melody is nailed down, I change to Kontakt, and to heck with the slow load times. The better samples are absolutely worth it.

Nowadays I just go straight to Avenger and make a start.

To use an analogy: Why knock out a tune on my nice-enough Yamaha acoustic guitar, when I can pick up the Taylor 814ce just as easily :)
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
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