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generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
82 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:24 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:Thanks for the suggestion,but I am not dropping $300+ on a 32" PC monitor,just so I can accommodate the Avenger's requirements.


Nor will Avenger change its design for an antiquated monitor. Stalemate.

Although, I would appreciate a change to the more u-he style preset browser (or most synths for that matter) which is on a separate screen. Browsing and modifying patches are two separate activities.
sircuit
KVRist
 
162 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Postby sircuit; Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:26 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:Thanks for the suggestion,but I am not dropping $300+ on a 32" PC monitor,just so I can accommodate the Avenger's requirements.


A proper monitor would accomodate any DAW's requirements not only Avenger's. I would not wish my enemies working on a 60-100 tracks project in 720p.

So you would rather enjoy this in 32"
Image

Over this on a 22"?
Image
MacBook Pro Quad-Core _ macOS _ ♫Logic Pro X
ljpro1
KVRist
 
81 posts since 19 Mar, 2003, from Chicago, IL USA

Postby ljpro1; Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:53 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

When will granular be released ?. . . . .
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
322 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:24 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

generaldiomedes wrote:
AlesisVi61 wrote:Thanks for the suggestion,but I am not dropping $300+ on a 32" PC monitor,just so I can accommodate the Avenger's requirements.


Nor will Avenger change its design for an antiquated monitor. Stalemate.

Although, I would appreciate a change to the more u-he style preset browser (or most synths for that matter) which is on a separate screen. Browsing and modifying patches are two separate activities.


Just to be clear,I am not opposing the need for an upgrade to a 1080p monitor,but I can't justify spending an additional $100 for a computer monitor,over a 1080p TV...when a TV essentially,does the same job.
Unless someone can give me some compelling reasons in detail,on the advantages of a computer monitor versus a TV monitor and explain the differences between the two(since both are high resolution LCD/LED monitors)...then perhaps,I will seriously consider a computer-specific monitor.
As things are now,I am in dire need of a computer tower upgrade and to me,that is infinitely more crucial to me,then the latest and greatest,ultra-pristine computer monitor of god-like proportions.
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
322 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:32 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
A proper monitor would accomodate any DAW's requirements not only Avenger's. I would not wish my enemies working on a 60-100 tracks project in 720p.

So you would rather enjoy this in 32"
Image

Over this on a 22"?
Image


Yes...I understand a 1080p monitor would be an all around benefit and I agree an upgrade is necessary,but again...until I demo'd Avenger,I got buy just fine and if there is some compelling reason why I may need a computer monitor,rather than a TV monitor for the Avenger VST and other VST's like it...then perhaps I will spend more for a computer-specific monitor over a TV monitor...eventually,at some point.
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
322 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:37 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
So you would rather enjoy this in 32"
Image

Over this on a 22"?
Image


By the way...how do you expect me to detect any discernible differences between these 2 screenshots,on an $80 32" 720 monitor?
I cannot see any differences...or perhaps this is the very point you are trying to convey to me?
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
322 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:48 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Okay...I did some poking around on Google and discovered that computer monitors have a significant higher resolution than TV(2580X2048)...which is a difference that I suppose I will notice.
What if though,I decided to just buy a 4K TV?Wouldn't that cover all of my entertainment and computer needs in a nutshell,for many years to come?
I mean...if I am going to spend the extra coin,in theory...a 4K TV would be the optimum choice,wouldn't it be?
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
82 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:13 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:I mean...if I am going to spend the extra coin,in theory...a 4K TV would be the optimum choice,wouldn't it be?


Unless you play a lot of high FpS games or do
Photo editing, probably yes. But this topic should probably be taken up somewhere else like tom''s hardware
sircuit
KVRist
 
162 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Postby sircuit; Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:51 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:
By the way...how do you expect me to detect any discernible differences between these 2 screenshots,on an $80 32" 720 monitor?
I cannot see any differences...or perhaps this is the very point you are trying to convey to me?


That's the whole point my friend: how can you discern ANYTING on that monitor? I mean, not being able to see a 720p print screen of a DAW (First image is how Ableton Live looks in a 720p screen) should really ring a bell that you're not using the correct display.

OK, this is my last intervention on this topic: I hope you can see in the first picture 3 colored lines - that is what you currently fit on 720p (regardless the size in inch): 3 tracks vertically and 8 bars of audio horizontally.
On a normal monitor, image below you can see a number of 8 tracks and 16 bars horizontally.
Now putting these two side by side, at this point you can realise that a 1200p monitor (dirt cheap regardless the inch) will give you a far better screen space to work with. Otherwise scrolling on both vertical and horizontal is absolutely insane on busy projects on such small space.

So why don't you keep your TV for whatever you want to watch at it and have a proper monitor for the real entertainment (making music)?

About TV vs monitors:
Monitors offer cleartype optimisations when rendering GUIs so anything on a monitor is clearer than a TV with the same resolution. As you go high in resolution with a TV, the cheap ones have slow processors (and the more expensive ones have all kind of optimisations which non of them are for displaying graphic user interfaces) and you'll notice artefacts when dragging windows on the screen (window lag, visible lines when refreshing screen), ESPECIALLY the 4K ones (just tested on my mid-range Samsung 4k 2016) - which are optimised for displaying movies, not graphic user interfaces.
And that's why you can see a smaller monitor more expensive than a TV. But you don't need the most expensive monitor. You need the cheapest 1200p monitor in the largest size in inch you can afford. It will still perform better than (smart) TV.
MacBook Pro Quad-Core _ macOS _ ♫Logic Pro X
User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
 
7771 posts since 3 Feb, 2003, from Finland, Espoo

Postby bmanic; Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:04 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

.. also, who the heck watches TV in 2017? :P

I haven't owned a TV since Finland went all digital. That was about a decade ago.
"I'm not trying to be anyone's savior. I'm just trying to think about the future and not be sad." - Elon Musk, TED talk April 2017
Lets dance
KVRist
 
49 posts since 8 Jun, 2017

Postby Lets dance; Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:30 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

bmanic wrote:.. also, who the heck watches TV in 2017? :P

I haven't owned a TV since Finland went all digital. That was about a decade ago.


Good for u :tu:
AlesisVi61
KVRist
 
322 posts since 16 Sep, 2014

Postby AlesisVi61; Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:37 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

sircuit wrote:
OK, this is my last intervention on this topic: I hope you can see in the first picture 3 colored lines - that is what you currently fit on 720p (regardless the size in inch): 3 tracks vertically and 8 bars of audio horizontally.
On a normal monitor, image below you can see a number of 8 tracks and 16 bars horizontally.
Now putting these two side by side, at this point you can realise that a 1200p monitor (dirt cheap regardless the inch) will give you a far better screen space to work with. Otherwise scrolling on both vertical and horizontal is absolutely insane on busy projects on such small space.

So why don't you keep your TV for whatever you want to watch at it and have a proper monitor for the real entertainment (making music)?

About TV vs monitors:
Monitors offer cleartype optimisations when rendering GUIs so anything on a monitor is clearer than a TV with the same resolution. As you go high in resolution with a TV, the cheap ones have slow processors (and the more expensive ones have all kind of optimisations which non of them are for displaying graphic user interfaces) and you'll notice artefacts when dragging windows on the screen (window lag, visible lines when refreshing screen), ESPECIALLY the 4K ones (just tested on my mid-range Samsung 4k 2016) - which are optimised for displaying movies, not graphic user interfaces.
And that's why you can see a smaller monitor more expensive than a TV. But you don't need the most expensive monitor. You need the cheapest 1200p monitor in the largest size in inch you can afford. It will still perform better than (smart) TV.


Okay....very well illustrated,that about sums it all up nicely,so thank you for that.As for having my existing TV monitor and a computer monitor in the same room...well...a 12'X11' bedroom that doubles as a studio,is problematic....so minimization is key.
I'll just have to resign my entertainment needs to my living room and keep my bedroom strictly for slumbering,recording,mixing and mastering. :idea:
xx JPRacer xx
KVRAF
 
1827 posts since 25 Jun, 2008, from Montreal, Canada

Postby xx JPRacer xx; Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:23 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61There's a lot of different things to look for in a LCD TV/monitor. 1st is the panel type. TN, VA, IPS and their derivatives. For non-gaming a IPS panel is best. You have good colors and the best viewing angle but contrast ratio is poor. VA you get (relatively)great contrast but poor viewing angle. TN is cheapest and you get very poor viewing angle with ok contrast and color. Then there's panel color bit-depth (6, 8, 10, 12 bit per color), response time, up-conversion quality (when you watch a 1080p bluray on a 1440p or 2160p tv/monitor good up-conversion can make a noticeable difference). There's also color gamut, gamma and white balance accuracy.

So there's a lot of things to consider. It's not because a tv/monitor is LCD that they're all created equal. Even tv/monitors with same panel can have vastly different picture quality depending on controlling electronics.
SLiC
KVRAF
 
1822 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:04 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Remember you will also need a powerful (expensive!) graphics card to drive a large 4K TV/monitor, modern scalable animate GUIs can often be quite GPU heavy.
godly
KVRian
 
538 posts since 22 May, 2013, from Gent, Belgium

Postby godly; Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:40 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

ljpro1 wrote:When will granular be released ?. . . . .

Looking forward to the basic needed functions also:
- Favs in list (star)
- sfz import
:P
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64 Alienware 15" laptop, Reaper with mainly Synth1 for Live, NordStage2, Samson Graphite 49.
Loving the new Avenger synth!
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