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EnochLight
KVRian
 
550 posts since 20 Mar, 2012, from Detroit, MI

Postby EnochLight; Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:42 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Wasn't there supposed to be a teaser video of the coming update like... weeks ago?

:dog:
  • Presonus Studio One 3.5 | too many VSTi's to name
  • Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 9.5 | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Tech Panorama P4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro | too many RE's to name
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2110 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:00 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61

There is just too much going on with this program,to the point where not having the option to view different portions with different pages,is ridiculous.
I cannot work effectively and efficiently this way,so this is a total deal breaker for me.


Shame to miss out. Really. Avenger is the most exciting synth I've played in a long time.

I'm no great synth wizard, but in the course of using it reasonably often for 6 months, I'm still left gasping at the sounds and what I can do with them. It's amazingly creative, and increasingly I'm seeing I can fairly easily find the sound in my head I'm looking for, or something I can happily settle with.

I never had this with Spire, or Dune (though I love its wonderful warm sound)

Sometimes I have to struggle & lean in and go cross-eyed at the screen to see, which I don't enjoy, but the Avenger speedy workflow makes up for the nuisance of having to lean over. My creative workflow isn't broken the same way that I get with Spire's horrible menus, or Omni's hidden screens, or Dune's rubbish mixer, etc.

I don't have to squint for long because it's so quick to work with, nothing takes that long to do.

What's become quickly obvious is Avenger's scope being way beyond an EDM synth, as readers of this thread already know. It's the only synth I'm interested in other than Omnisphere, which still has some useful pads, guitar & hybrid sounds. But Omni's sounds are so static compared with Avenger's gloriously unendingly expressive motion & chaos. Expressive and responsive, like a guitar, or a violin.

I have some sympathy for AlesisVi61 but I really think it's worth saving for a system upgrade to get access to this synth, which is arguably the world's best in its class. We all have to save for some things.
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
mike_the_ranger
KVRer
 
28 posts since 16 Feb, 2017

Postby mike_the_ranger; Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:30 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

AlesisVi61 wrote:There is just too much going on with this program,to the point where not having the option to view different portions with different pages,is ridiculous.
I cannot work effectively and efficiently this way,so this is a total deal breaker for me.Besides which,an all-in-one workstation synth is fantastic,if one is just starting out and does not have much else to work with(but since I have a plethora of other synth VST's & such)...the Avenger VST is just overkill for me anyway

I have to say I agree to a certain degree. I thought I am the only one, but to me it feels like using avenger for bread & butter sounds is overkill. For example if I just want a supersaw, 90% of its controls are unused and unnecessary. i'd rather use a more lightweighted plugin with a non-cluttered ui for that kind of sounds. So it is meant to make crazy modulated funky stuff with it.
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2110 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

mike_the_ranger

I have to say I agree to a certain degree. I thought I am the only one, but to me it feels like using avenger for bread & butter sounds is overkill. For example if I just want a supersaw, 90% of its controls are unused and unnecessary. i'd rather use a more lightweighted plugin with a non-cluttered ui for that kind of sounds. So it is meant to make crazy modulated funky stuff with it.


Yes, I used to use S1's Mai Tai synth for this quick bread & butter synth work.

But every time I get around to producing (not writing) the tune, I find the basic synth isn't interesting enough. Maybe it's too static, maybe it needs something extra to make it fit better in the arrangement, maybe it's just too thin, etc.

So I don't buy into this workflow any longer. It's old school.

Nothing is "bread & butter" anymore. Bread & butter is another word for "sound like the other guy", and not like the tune you've got in your head.

Using Avenger as a start synth is easy enough as it loads with a straight saw and one osc. What could be simpler?

I have a similar thing with Kontakt, which is a slow old bugger to load.

I use S1 Presence Sampler maybe to get started as it's so fast. But once the melody is nailed down, I change to Kontakt, and to heck with the slow load times. The better samples are absolutely worth it.

Nowadays I just go straight to Avenger and make a start.

To use an analogy: Why knock out a tune on my nice-enough Yamaha acoustic guitar, when I can pick up the Taylor 814ce just as easily :)
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2110 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:51 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

I want to develop this slightly.

I don't believe in Notes any more.

Only Tones with a Pitch value.

The concept of static Notes that, say, Beethoven wrote for specific instruments in a score, is a dead paradigm.

What is a "specific instrument" anymore? :?

Today, Tone has to move as effortlessly as Pitch.

And ordinary synths struggle to do this satisfactorily.

Or as my secret musical self might say:

"If it don't move, then it don't groove" :hihi:
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
darksynth
KVRist
 
42 posts since 5 Jun, 2017

Postby darksynth; Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:08 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

...
Last edited by darksynth on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
darksynth
KVRist
 
42 posts since 5 Jun, 2017

Postby darksynth; Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:11 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

darksynth wrote:
mike_the_ranger wrote:
AlesisVi61 wrote:There is just too much going on with this program,to the point where not having the option to view different portions with different pages,is ridiculous.
I cannot work effectively and efficiently this way,so this is a total deal breaker for me.Besides which,an all-in-one workstation synth is fantastic,if one is just starting out and does not have much else to work with(but since I have a plethora of other synth VST's & such)...the Avenger VST is just overkill for me anyway

I have to say I agree to a certain degree. I thought I am the only one, but to me it feels like using avenger for bread & butter sounds is overkill. For example if I just want a supersaw, 90% of its controls are unused and unnecessary. i'd rather use a more lightweighted plugin with a non-cluttered ui for that kind of sounds. So it is meant to make crazy modulated funky stuff with it.



Feature Request: a New Skin with a Tabbed Layout

one tab for Osc + LFO + ENV
one tab for Sequencer
one tab for Mod Matrix
one tab for Preset Browser
one tab for Settings
....

one tab for Overview/Summary
Lets dance
KVRist
 
58 posts since 8 Jun, 2017

Postby Lets dance; Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:42 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

It's almost end of the summer ,what's up with the update?
Armagibbon
KVRist
 
464 posts since 20 Apr, 2017

Postby Armagibbon; Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:43 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

kevvvvv wrote:I want to develop this slightly.

I don't believe in Notes any more.

Only Tones with a Pitch value.

The concept of static Notes that, say, Beethoven wrote for specific instruments in a score, is a dead paradigm.

What is a "specific instrument" anymore? :?

You want your work performed? You damn well better notate the shit out of it. And flow comes from the musician and their interpretation of what you wrote down right? Being the composer and musician at the same time means some part of that is gonna suffer, because you only have so much time to give and no man alive can do it all alone. I mean notation aint there to oppress you man, shit's helpful as f*ck.
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EnochLight
KVRian
 
550 posts since 20 Mar, 2012, from Detroit, MI

Postby EnochLight; Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:47 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Lets dance wrote:It's almost end of the summer ,what's up with the update?


Huh? Summer began June 21. It's not even 1/3 done, LOL!!! That said, it would be great to get an update from msvs. There was supposed to be teaser videos some time ago.. :dog: :roll:

:lol: :D
  • Presonus Studio One 3.5 | too many VSTi's to name
  • Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 9.5 | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Tech Panorama P4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro | too many RE's to name
goleat
KVRist
 
170 posts since 24 Jan, 2011

Postby goleat; Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:53 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Lets dance wrote:It's almost end of the summer ,what's up with the update?


I prefer the developer to take all summer (including autumn) to get the granular synthesis mode in good condition, instead of delaying 5 years as U-he to "prolong" the development of Zebra 3. :oops:
Lets dance
KVRist
 
58 posts since 8 Jun, 2017

Postby Lets dance; Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:46 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

goleat wrote:
Lets dance wrote:It's almost end of the summer ,what's up with the update?


I prefer the developer to take all summer (including autumn) to get the granular synthesis mode in good condition, instead of delaying 5 years as U-he to "prolong" the development of Zebra 3. :oops:

Yep
I know what u r meaning.
Please no bugs. :ud:
darksynth
KVRist
 
42 posts since 5 Jun, 2017

Postby darksynth; Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:28 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

delete
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2110 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:44 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

Armigibbon

You want your work performed? You damn well better notate the shit out of it. And flow comes from the musician and their interpretation of what you wrote down right? Being the composer and musician at the same time means some part of that is gonna suffer, because you only have so much time to give and no man alive can do it all alone. I mean notation aint there to oppress you man, shit's helpful as f*ck.


Sorry, I mustn't have expressed myself very well. My bad.

I read as good as the next muso, since forever.

But having scores played back by musicians who can read dots is becoming less important than it was.

Because dots don't explain the sound.

Dots only tell pitch.

The performer/director works out the rest.

If I gave you a score for an Avenger track, you'd still never really know how it's meant to sound - unless I included the presets, the automation tracks, the quirky arp settings, the delay feedback on an important snare, the wobble, etc, and an mp3.

Music notation can only say "play these notes on a saw tooth sound".

It doesn't explain how to use a production suite like, say, Avenger and Studio One to achieve the whole sound.

I'm bored with dots and cheap synths :wink:
Member 12, Studio One 3, Avenger, Komplete Ultimate, Dune, Spire (make me an offer), Omnisphere 2 (still hanging in there), Battery, BFD, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
goleat
KVRist
 
170 posts since 24 Jan, 2011

Postby goleat; Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:20 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - is now LIVE!

kevvvvv wrote:Armigibbon

If I gave you a score for an Avenger track, you'd still never really know how it's meant to sound - unless I included the presets, the automation tracks, the quirky arp settings, the delay feedback on an important snare, the wobble, etc, and an mp3.

Music notation can only say "play these notes on a saw tooth sound".

It doesn't explain how to use a production suite like, say, Avenger and Studio One to achieve the whole sound.

I'm bored with dots and cheap synths :wink:


I'm surprised that there is not yet any notation for automations, LFO's, etc, in the current musical notation (or am I wrong?)

Obviously some will tell me that the standard MIDI and other tools are really to fill that space that classical musical notation is still reluctant to include.

But compositing methods are rapidly advancing (manipulation of synthesizers, samples, automations from the last 40 years) and sooner or later a change will have to be made.

Sorry if I misrepresented the thread.
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