KVR Audio

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:00 pm

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:31 pm

v1o wrote:
BONES wrote:
Yorrrrrr wrote:Yes, and you guys pretty much captured, in software form, many of the subtleties that make the Minimoog Model D the most iconic synthesizer of all times.
Except what made the Minimoog so iconic was it's portability. Nobody held onto them once better synths from the likes of Sequential Circuits and Oberheim came along. I started going to see bands in 1979 and I honestly don't think I've ever seen anyone using a Minimoog on stage. Everyone had Prophet Vs and Pro-One's and MS-20s and Odysseys and Jupiter 8s and OB-XAs and CS-80s and pretty much anything but a Minimoog. I used to see them in shops, though, so you could still buy them. It's just that nobody did.
That is the normal course of life for any model of synth. It is not unique to the Model E. Tastes change and things get of fashion. People start to want shiny new things.

In the 80’s people were throwing out their Rolands, Sequential Circuits and OBXs for new digital synths such as the DX7 and D50 etc. Then in the 00’s the used prices of analogue synths shot up drammatically which led to the current analogue resurgence.

It’s funny, I was mostly a guitar player (never went for pointy, but I still have my early 90s Steinberger) and while I loved synthesizers, I never had the cash for them, so I just kind of “bottom fed” off the cast offs. So, what ever was “hot” at any given time, was not owned by me. In this way, I never really thought at all about analog vs. digital. I just took what ever I could get my hands on and messed with it.

Older and (somewhat) wiser now, I get the differences in technology, and that even includes software. I love the sh!t out of Legend, but I’m sure if I had a Model D in front of me, I’d notice some of the vibe wasn’t there. Even on my cheap Neptune 2 (amazing cheap synth if you can fine one) has a bit of “messiness” that just makes it feel looser and more alive than Legend. I don’t see this as a plus or minus. It’s just different.,

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:04 am

v1o wrote:That is the normal course of life for any model of synth. It is not unique to the Model E. Tastes change and things get of fashion. People start to want shiny new things.

Not for "iconic" synths. People held on to those and you still saw things like Jupiter 8s and Prophet Vs well into the mid 80s.

In the 80’s people were throwing out their Rolands, Sequential Circuits and OBXs for new digital synths such as the DX7 and D50 etc.

Yes, because digital synths were just so much better and far more versatile than analogue synths and, of course, remain so today. I wouldn't have swapped my ESQ-M back for the Mono/Poly I sold to pay for it for anything. Even ignoring the amazing convenience of multi-timbrality and a patch memory, the ESQ just sounded so much better in every possible way.

Then in the 00’s the used prices of analogue synths shot up drammatically which led to the current analogue resurgence.

That's because people are idiots and companies are more than happy to take full advantage of their stupidity.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:40 am

....and yet youve just bought a load of hardware, including analogue, that is clearly inferior to software, both soundwise and versatility....

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:26 pm

"Clearly inferior" is very subjective in this matter. I have a personal dislike of tweaking the synths with the mouse and love to have real knobs. It feels faster and less distracting. The sound quality is debatable, though... and the value for money, of course. I pretty much agree about that, especially if we're talking about modern hardware synths like Roland's or Korg's. So much crap for too much money around these days... an overpriced plastic VST DSP synth with DAC and knobs. But there are real hardware gems out there...

fluffy_little_something · Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:53 pm

Those things probably come and go in waves because most artists want to differentiate themselves from the competition. When everyone used a Moog, what was the point of doing it as well...

The digital synths were rather compact, not as bulky as analog synths, and they had Midi, stable pitch, patch memories etc., things that make daily usage much more comfortable.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:03 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote: The digital synths were rather compact, not as bulky as analog synths, and they had Midi, stable pitch, patch memories etc., things that make daily usage much more comfortable.

Well, one main reason to sell my real Minimoog Model D back in 2005 was the lack of patch memory and MIDI (while sound wise it was indeed awesome...). At the beginning this was no big problem but after a while the lack of patch memory and MIDI was a major PITA...
With some parameters even small differences could make a difference in the sound so replicating patches from patch sheets (or photos of the knob settings...) could be really tricky in several cases.
As i mentioned several times Synapse Audio The Legend finally is a perfect replacement for me and has several useful additions compared to the real thing (independent of the usual advantages of using a plugin instead of hardware).

Besides that many of the new/newer analog synths got the advantages you mentioned too.
For example both my Naovation Bass Station 2 and Waldorf Pulse 2 are small (also due to using much smaller SMD components for the circuits instead of full size ones), have a stable pitch (both use DCOs which does NOT mean the oscillators are fully digital!!!), MIDI (both standard MIDI and USB) and patch memory.
Both are also capable of using velocity and aftertouch for modulation purposes.

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:09 pm

ingo, wouldyou say THE LEGEND is THE replacement for the minimoog hardware?

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:29 pm

I think anyone who knows anything about MM's would say that

fluffy_little_something · Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:44 pm

Ingonator wrote:Well, one main reason to sell my real Minimoog Model D back in 2005 was the lack of patch memory and MIDI (while sound wise it was indeed awesome...). At the beginning this was no big problem but after a while the lack of patch memory and MIDI was a major PITA...
With some parameters even small differences could make a difference in the sound so replicating patches from patch sheets (or photos of the knob settings...) could be really tricky in several cases.

Oh my, setting parameters precisely from photos, that sounds almost impossible, especially when every little nudge makes a difference

I remember doing something similar, though, when trying synth demo versions where saving patches was disabled. So I took screenshots and saved them as visual patches, so to speak. It helps when the control pointers are sharp and control scales have many dividers. Knobs like this one could be set very precisely from screenshots, but they are rare with synths due to the tiny size:
https://static9.depositphotos.com/17047 ... b-with.jpg

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:12 pm

Caine123 wrote:ingo, wouldyou say THE LEGEND is THE replacement for the minimoog hardware?

IMO it is indeed the best emulation so far and it should be very hard to do a better one in the future.

Future Imrovements could be mostly done in the feature set (while all features of the real vintage Model D are alraedy included) but not really in the basic sound which seems to be difficult to do better.

The sound quality vs CPU use ratio is very good too with The Legend.

Chris-S · Post by **Chris-S** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:41 pm

I just noticed the Legend producing a plopp noise even when all 3 oscs are turned off.

To reproduce:

turn off all oscs
put Amp attack to zero
the click is loudest with "early" model and filter symmetry set to -5
It can go to 0 dB peak with master vol set to 10
it's not noticable in "late" model with filter symmetry set to 0

Bug or Design?

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:28 pm

Chris-S wrote:I just noticed the Legend producing a plopp noise even when all 3 oscs are turned off.

To reproduce:

turn off all oscs
put Amp attack to zero
the click is loudest with "early" model and filter symmetry set to -5
it's not noticable in "late" model with filter symmetry set to 0

Bug or Design?

By design - it is authentic behavior (envelopes leak through to some degree, even with no oscillator signals present).

Richard

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:48 pm

AnX wrote:I think anyone who knows anything about MM's would say that

No. Not when they are trying to justify their £3000 purchase. They will never admit to software being a replacement.

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:35 pm

I think hardware is probably bought today for different reasons, like using the instrument for performances, or when it comes to vintage-analog synths, as collector's items.

If someone wants to buy a real piano they'll do that, even if there are plugins sounding as good or better.

Richard

Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!