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DarkStar
KVRAF
 
8287 posts since 2 Sep, 2003, from Surrey, UK

Postby DarkStar; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:40 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

axb312 wrote:
Iva wrote:I predict for modo version 2.0 unified modo instruments (piano, bass and drums) player ala sample tank with custom shop integration for models. Upgrade price 150 eur, new models in custom shop for 80-100 eur each. I think ver 1.5 is just a test product. That’s the way ik usually does its business


This comment and a mention of a 150 USD upgrade are giving me nightmares.

C'mon guys, I just bought this during BF. Perhaps I should've read up some more on how IK Multimedia does business but I bought this believing all updates to the MODO bass would be free for life, the way most companies who want to retain and grow their customer base are doing it nowadays.

That is pure speculation. IK Multimedia does not release test products. And many other developers charge an upgrade price when going from one major version to the next. All updates to MODO BASS v1 will, I expect, be free, just as with updates to IKM's other products. But upgrades to new major versions is a different game.
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...
axb312
KVRist
 
30 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Postby axb312; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:43 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

DarkStar wrote:
axb312 wrote:Perhaps this is derailing the thread a bit but I would really like to know what the general consensus on how IK treats it's customers and updates is....

That sure will derail it. And not really benefit anyone.


Will benefit me and all future buyers. Perhaps you could've just replied with your thoughts on the subject instead of offering an unhelpful reply. Or perhaps there is another thread to discuss this wrt MODO bass and it's future prospects?
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
5132 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:47 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

axb312 wrote:
DarkStar wrote:
axb312 wrote:Perhaps this is derailing the thread a bit but I would really like to know what the general consensus on how IK treats it's customers and updates is....

That sure will derail it. And not really benefit anyone.


Will benefit me and all future buyers. Perhaps you could've just replied with your thoughts on the subject instead of offering an unhelpful reply. Or perhaps there is another thread to discuss this wrt MODO bass and it's future prospects?

No it won't, IK is an established and for this niche area a large company that's been around for years. Finding out about how they treat customers is simple and already well known. All that will happen is a few people with axes to grind will derail the thread.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
5132 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:48 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

axb312 wrote:Or perhaps there is another thread to discuss this wrt MODO bass and it's future prospects?

So you want a thread where people who don't have a clue what is going to happen rant about potential problems that don't exist yet?
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
axb312
KVRist
 
30 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Postby axb312; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:50 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

DarkStar wrote:
axb312 wrote:
Iva wrote:I predict for modo version 2.0 unified modo instruments (piano, bass and drums) player ala sample tank with custom shop integration for models. Upgrade price 150 eur, new models in custom shop for 80-100 eur each. I think ver 1.5 is just a test product. That’s the way ik usually does its business


This comment and a mention of a 150 USD upgrade are giving me nightmares.

C'mon guys, I just bought this during BF. Perhaps I should've read up some more on how IK Multimedia does business but I bought this believing all updates to the MODO bass would be free for life, the way most companies who want to retain and grow their customer base are doing it nowadays.

That is pure speculation. IK Multimedia does not release test products. And many other developers charge an upgrade price when going from one major version to the next. All updates to MODO BASS v1 will, I expect, be free, just as with updates to IKM's other products. But upgrades to new major versions is a different game.


Would adding a fretless or an upright bass count as a major revision to MODO you think? I hope not....
axb312
KVRist
 
30 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Postby axb312; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:51 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

SJ_Digriz wrote:
axb312 wrote:
DarkStar wrote:
axb312 wrote:Perhaps this is derailing the thread a bit but I would really like to know what the general consensus on how IK treats it's customers and updates is....

That sure will derail it. And not really benefit anyone.


Will benefit me and all future buyers. Perhaps you could've just replied with your thoughts on the subject instead of offering an unhelpful reply. Or perhaps there is another thread to discuss this wrt MODO bass and it's future prospects?

No it won't, IK is an established and for this niche area a large company that's been around for years. Finding out about how they treat customers is simple and already well known. All that will happen is a few people with axes to grind will derail the thread.


Is there a problem with having that info and it's relevancy to MODO here on this thread?
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
5132 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:55 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

axb312 wrote:Is there a problem with having that info and it's relevancy to MODO here on this thread?

Does info created by people who have no idea what the info is qualify as info?
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
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Jax Pok
KVRian
 
583 posts since 1 Mar, 2015, from UK

Postby Jax Pok; Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:57 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

Really could do with a modelled Steve Harris signature P-Bass on fire with options on the GUI for different types of fuel.
electro
KVRAF
 
4211 posts since 5 May, 2002

Postby electro; Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:01 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

Iva wrote:I predict for modo version 2.0 unified modo instruments (piano, bass and drums) player ala sample tank with custom shop integration for models. Upgrade price 150 eur, new models in custom shop for 80-100 eur each. I think ver 1.5 is just a test product. That’s the way ik usually does its business
Bad idea. Pianoteq 6 is already there for Piano and BFD3 is already there for Drums, both near flawless solutions.
It would make sense for the next MODO release to be E-Guitar instead of wading into foreign arenas other products have already covered so well.
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
5132 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:02 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

I concur on the odd artificial sounding attack. I haven't had it long enough to try to figure out the articulation control process. So, I don't have any real bitches there yet. But, even the attack disappears in a mix. It reminds me of the modeled pianos that are out there. That all have that squishy, plasticy thing going on.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14157 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:30 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

Iva wrote:I predict for modo version 2.0 unified modo instruments (piano, bass and drums) player ala sample tank with custom shop integration for models. Upgrade price 150 eur, new models in custom shop for 80-100 eur each. I think ver 1.5 is just a test product. That’s the way ik usually does its business


A couple of things:

a) MODO Instruments might be a thing for the future, but I think their focus is currently on stringed instruments.

b) Upgrade to v2 for 150USD is a likely price, but that is a thing to debate once it happens. I only stated my concerns that we're 1 year in, and we're already at 1.5 with just 2 more basses, a 6 string mode (which is overkill for 95% of the offered basses) and an overhauled keyswitch window. I expected a v1.2 or v1.3 first.

c) MODO Bass is no test product, and taking the negative feedback to "custom shops" into consideration, I don't think that v2 will feature that "a la carte selection". In this case, it would be absolutely nonsense. So your post is pure speculation.



Regarding the constantly upcoming request to get a "Fretless Bass":
May I ask why? The engine is made so that you always have the ideal pitch (because - you've got to find a point somewhere). So adding a fretless bass would offer "more wonky pitches" and near clean scrape noises? Is that your main goal?



Regarding "Acoustic Basses" - I don't see a need to port this into MODO Bass either. The bass selection is complicated and cumbersome as it is. Also... from a marketing standpoint, it does make more sense to create a dedicated product. There are tons of acoustic basses out there just like there are types of electric basses (not to mention: upright non bowed, Broomstick, etc).

Not to mention - what holds you off from using the Piezo Pickup alone and not even addressing the electric pickups? Other than "I want the warm sound of a tone hole. Then how about this idea: High Action, one PU at the tone hole only, DI output only, no FX, and post MODO Bass something like TDL Proximity to create a "microphone effect". Heck, even use a mic modeler for the time being. This engine offers you to be creative - so be creative!



Regarding "strange attack" - maybe a "humanize" feature with a control over the "attack time" (within 0-20ms) would be of interest? It sure worked for sample based guitar engines and reintroduces a certain form of "sloppyness".



And finally regarding Trillian vs MODO Bass - apples and oranges IMO. If there would still be Mokafix's "Dark Lady", then we would talk. But sadly, that project dropped off the face of the planet.




All in all, I'd be happy to see v1.5.5 or something, where we get the "Slide Noise" on the Control Panel, a Velocity Keyswitch setup (3 layers) and a Tapping Mode. That alone would be a better improvement for me than jumping to v1.9.x and just getting "new basses", with the crucial updates/improvements in a paid v2.0

YMMV
Last edited by Compyfox on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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noiseboyuk
KVRAF
 
1861 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Postby noiseboyuk; Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:09 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

I'll just take this one...

Compyfox wrote:Regarding the constantly upcoming request to get a "Fretless Bass":
May I ask why? The engine is made so that you always have the ideal pitch (because - you've got to find a point somewhere). So adding a fretless bass would offer "more wonky pitches" and near clean scrape noises? Is that your main goal?


Ahem.

Modelled fretless really would be a terrific idea. What's lovely is that you'd also get this for every model of bass - the frets would just vanish. Now the point of this is not to have wonky pitches. The reason fretless basses are a unique and lovely thing is that the playing style is quite different, with graceful slides between notes that are impossible to do otherwise. It's a totally different effect from a fretted slide. Then there's vibrato, which is suddenly physically possible. And the best bit - fretless basses are a bugger to play without wonky pitches, unlike fretted which even I can make a half decent stab at. So the modelled variety comes into its own more.

(actually there's another effect too, but I don't understand why this is... the typical fretless sound is also quite mid-dy compared to regular basses, slightly nasal almost. Anyone know why this is technically? Presumably it just the sound of the most popular fretless model, and the fretless bit was a co-incidence?)
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axb312
KVRist
 
30 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Postby axb312; Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:39 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

noiseboyuk wrote:I'll just take this one...

Compyfox wrote:Regarding the constantly upcoming request to get a "Fretless Bass":
May I ask why? The engine is made so that you always have the ideal pitch (because - you've got to find a point somewhere). So adding a fretless bass would offer "more wonky pitches" and near clean scrape noises? Is that your main goal?


Ahem.

Modelled fretless really would be a terrific idea. What's lovely is that you'd also get this for every model of bass - the frets would just vanish. Now the point of this is not to have wonky pitches. The reason fretless basses are a unique and lovely thing is that the playing style is quite different, with graceful slides between notes that are impossible to do otherwise. It's a totally different effect from a fretted slide. Then there's vibrato, which is suddenly physically possible. And the best bit - fretless basses are a bugger to play without wonky pitches, unlike fretted which even I can make a half decent stab at. So the modelled variety comes into its own more.

(actually there's another effect too, but I don't understand why this is... the typical fretless sound is also quite mid-dy compared to regular basses, slightly nasal almost. Anyone know why this is technically? Presumably it just the sound of the most popular fretless model, and the fretless bit was a co-incidence?)


A fretless sounds completely different compared to a normal bass imo.

As an example, try listening to tracks by a band called Cynic.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14157 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:45 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

Again, I ask "how" this should be possible to port from a technical standpoint.

You need to "mess up" the engine from "perfect pitch placement" to (as I'd call it) "wonky". I mean, you port keyboard notes into "fret positions" - so the positions need to be slightly off for a fretless.

Vibrato is already possible with the current engine. Slide noises would be reduced (the only usable thing I'd see here) and yes, no noticed "fixed pitch" (in semi tones) while sliding.


I might be talking up a wall of "fretless bass fans", but I still don't see a reason for it.
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axb312
KVRist
 
30 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Postby axb312; Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:00 am Re: MODO BASS: Get ready for a new level of realism (1.5 update available now)

Compyfox wrote:Again, I ask "how" this should be possible to port from a technical standpoint.

You need to "mess up" the engine from "perfect pitch placement" to (as I'd call it) "wonky". I mean, you port keyboard notes into "fret positions" - so the positions need to be slightly off for a fretless.

Vibrato is already possible with the current engine. Slide noises would be reduced (the only usable thing I'd see here) and yes, no noticed "fixed pitch" (in semi tones) while sliding.


I might be talking up a wall of "fretless bass fans", but I still don't see a reason for it.


Q. Do you play the guitar?

Positions needn't be off at all for a fretless. The sound is different because of a lack of phsyical fret dividers (visual markers are still present) and thats it. Most fretless bass players are able to play in pitch.

Maybe I don't really understand what I'm saying but at the end of the day I am more interested in emulating the tonal characteristics of a fretless while keeping pitch etc. the way they are.
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