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padillac
KVRist
 
456 posts since 27 Nov, 2011

Postby padillac; Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:22 pm Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

bungle wrote:All we are doing is talking about issues, what exactly makes you think i am not calm ?


You've been going on about the same thing for 5 pages now, getting more aggressive with each post.

If potential users discussing issues have no chance of ever changing anything with this developer, thanks for letting us know padillac, i guess you already have previous issues with the developer that make you think this ?


Nope not at all. Beating the same dead horse won't change what Chris does. Just like me beating the same dead horse won't change what you do.

And that's twice that you seem to have deliberately misrepresented what I said, so I'll relieve you of that burden from here on out.
Chrisboy2000
KVRer
 
28 posts since 21 Apr, 2008, from Germany

Postby Chrisboy2000; Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:44 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

This thread helped me a lot to get a better impression of the needs of developers, but I also agree that everybody in this thread made their statements clear. It most definetily will have an impact on the new licencing but as long as there isn't something else to discuss than the licencing I think we can set an end point to this.

I am thinking about setting up a (anonymous) survey with questions regarding the licence model so I can get a more complete feedback from more developers. Is this something you would be interested in?
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jupiter8
KVRAF
 
9367 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:40 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

I'm not up to snuff on the latest JUCE and OS licenses but what's stopping me from just releasing a HISE player for free ?
Not to clear on how HISE works either for that matter.
bungle
KVRian
 
1280 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby bungle; Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:22 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

So when did the self appointed moderators start happening around KVR ?
Maybe i shouldn't answer Chris now about his survey idea Padillac ?

No matter how many replies i make, unless a moderator says the thread is closed, the discussion is not closed, and you are not a moderator padillac, stop telling other forum users how/what to post.

Chris i am less interested in surveys (Yes i will take it) than having concrete information.

jupiter8 wrote:I'm not up to snuff on the latest JUCE and OS licenses but what's stopping me from just releasing a HISE player for free ?
Not to clear on how HISE works either for that matter.

Nothing at all, it is open source.
But the discussion has been more about compiling standalones and cost of licence for that really, as i pointed out earlier, there is nothing stopping somebody compiling a standalone with a bunch of default samples, releasing that as source and then selling add on packs, while it would be a very scummy thing to do, i brought it up because it is an obvious loophole, unless add on sample packs wont be supported, that being the case the value of HISE drops anyway.
These are the worries some people have, and are being ignored/unanswered entirely.
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.
Akta
KVRer
 
2 posts since 29 Dec, 2016

Postby Akta; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:09 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

Chrisboy2000 wrote:GPL means everything you need to compile and use the plugin must be made availabe to the public, which includes samples and all HISE files.


WRONG !

WAVs and samples in general are copyright of their authors, they can't be GPLed as GPL only applies to CODE and not to creative things like audio or video or graphics or photos.

You must be misinformed about this, this is the norm in web design and especially in commercial templates, see what Envato is doing for their GPL Wordpress templates, the code is GPL but not the CSS and not the icons, images, and graphics.

I can legally compile a plugin made with HISE, sell it and give the source code on my site, but nobody can legally steal my sound library running on it for the simple reason they have different licences : the code is GPL but the WAVs are not ! (unless stated otherwise by the WAV's author).

Moreover, do you really think experienced coders can't obfuscate your C++ code and giving nothing back to you and the JUCE team crooks ? think again ...
Akta
KVRer
 
2 posts since 29 Dec, 2016

Postby Akta; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:31 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

jupiter8 wrote:I'm not up to snuff on the latest JUCE and OS licenses but what's stopping me from just releasing a HISE player for free ?


nothing, all you need to do is to make an official "fork" on Github, but it must be GPL3 as Juce and Hise.

this discussion is pointless, once you can access the whole source code of a product there are 1000s ways to obfuscate the compiled code, no way for Juce or Hise authors to prove you used their framework.

illegal ? try sueing a company in china or india, good luck with that, and while you're at it they'll keep making money with your code, at worst they'll close down and reopen with a new name the next day.
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SampleScience
KVRAF
 
3600 posts since 31 Oct, 2004, from Mtl, Canada

Postby SampleScience; Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:58 pm Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

Akta wrote:
jupiter8 wrote:I'm not up to snuff on the latest JUCE and OS licenses but what's stopping me from just releasing a HISE player for free ?


nothing, all you need to do is to make an official "fork" on Github, but it must be GPL3 as Juce and Hise.

this discussion is pointless, once you can access the whole source code of a product there are 1000s ways to obfuscate the compiled code, no way for Juce or Hise authors to prove you used their framework.

illegal ? try sueing a company in china or india, good luck with that, and while you're at it they'll keep making money with your code, at worst they'll close down and reopen with a new name the next day.


I agree.
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jupiter8
KVRAF
 
9367 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:09 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

Akta wrote:
jupiter8 wrote:I'm not up to snuff on the latest JUCE and OS licenses but what's stopping me from just releasing a HISE player for free ?


nothing, all you need to do is to make an official "fork" on Github, but it must be GPL3 as Juce and Hise.

this discussion is pointless, once you can access the whole source code of a product there are 1000s ways to obfuscate the compiled code, no way for Juce or Hise authors to prove you used their framework.

illegal ? try sueing a company in china or india, good luck with that, and while you're at it they'll keep making money with your code, at worst they'll close down and reopen with a new name the next day.

It wasn't a critisism,i was just curious about the business model and GPL. He says i need a license to do this and that and as far as i know i don't in many cases. He was talking about selling a free player for 20 bucks and to me it looks fairly simple to do that myself. And if i do that what is stopping me from selling my libraries without giving him a cut ? I mean legally and morally ? Of course i can do whatever i want but even if i want to play by the rules i don't really see an issue.

I asked mostly because i'm interested in how GPL works and i'm generally curious.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
24649 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:49 am Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

Akta wrote:WAVs and samples in general are copyright of their authors, they can't be GPLed as GPL only applies to CODE and not to creative things like audio or video or graphics or photos.


Wrong. There's nothing intrinsic to the GPL that means it can only be applied to code and cannot be applied to other media. The GPL FAQ states that explicitly.

For example, the FAQ for the GPL specifically states that the GPL could be used for their own manuals and documentation. The reason that they dont, that they use a documentation-specific license, is only because so much of the GPL is specific to what is applicable to code.

The same FAQ includes information on applying to GPL at least one example of what you're describing as 'creative things,' namely fonts.

The GPL is not a particularly great license for non-code media, but the license certainly does not only apply to code.

Now, if you want to argue that the 'sticky' nature of the GPL does not apply to media included as part of the redistribution of a GPL'd package, that's a somewhat different thing. Its not the case that the GPL 'sticks' to media that the GPL'd code is intended to play back, the GPL applies to what's derived from the GPL'd package alone. That doesnt mean there cant be GPL'd media files in that package though.
In short, dont conflate the data for the package with the package; they are separate.

You must be misinformed about this, this is the norm in web design and especially in commercial templates, see what Envato is doing for their GPL Wordpress templates, the code is GPL but not the CSS and not the icons, images, and graphics.


I think you're the one who's misinformed. The fact that something is not being done by one group or anothere does not mean that it cannot be done.

I can legally compile a plugin made with HISE, sell it and give the source code on my site, but nobody can legally steal my sound library running on it for the simple reason they have different licences : the code is GPL but the WAVs are not ! (unless stated otherwise by the WAV's author).


That's a separate issue from whether or not the GPL can be applied to WAV files.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3352 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:45 pm Re: HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt

SampleScience wrote:If it were payware, the chances would be greater as there would be the money incentive and support to provide. Even Flowstone and SynthEdit cost money!

Oh, you mean like Camel Audio Alchemy perhaps? I wholeheartedly agree. :roll:

Nothing is a guarantee these days. Payware or not. Companies change and/or merge, companies shut down. Open Source is actually a better guarantee because someone can fork it, someone can also take over if the development comes to a halt. ;)
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
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