NI FM9 ever?

[yul]

OTOH, FM8 has all the features an FM synth can have, like for example those we could find on the SY series, or the FS1R, to just name two illustrious FM successors done by Yamaha.

Not so sure..Does FS1R have filter keyboard tracking? FM8 is lacking on this one. The filter just acts like a polyphonic fixed resonant filter ( which can in fact be good for imitating natural resonant bodies).

Also I would really like to see legato envelopes in mono mode which is not possible now in FM8.

The envelopes reset on every key click it's annoying in mono mode (but them maybe the DX7 did just that as well).

[ghettosynth]

You know, I might be in the minority, and let me be clear, I would like to see an update to FM8 and Absynth. However, I would also be completely ok if they continued to focus on Reaktor and Kontakt. I'd really like it if they merged the products in some way. I would love to build instruments for Kontakt that started with Kontakt groups but allowed the use of Reaktor modules. At the very least I hope that they update the filters in the next Kontakt release.

How do you feel about Reaktor 6?

Is that a serious question? I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, as opposed to Reaktor 5.x, or, in what sense?

They put those Monark filters and oscillators in as macros for building. Yes it is a Reaktor ensemble, but it's the first time. And it could go farther, maybe.

I was just musing about about having Reaktor open other instruments in its shell. Like FM8 and Absynth. Like you said, I think

I think that this is a really heavily requested feature request for Reaktor. I would like to see it offer VST hosting. That would be awesome.

Alternatively, I would also enjoy them porting FM8 and Absynth to Reaktor as ensembles. Especially if they weren't going to lock them down. That way at least I could change the bits that I don't like, e.g, they both have mediocre analog filters.

I really like Reaktor, I'm fine with them just focusing on improving their general solutions, Kontakt, Reaktor, Guitar Rig, and Maschine. I just want to see them develop their past instruments more seriously. I'd like to see B4 come back as a Reaktor instrument. That would have been a much better choice than just sampling it.

What is great about Reaktor instruments is that, for people like me, at least, we can edit them, change them slightly and make them our own in ways that matter to us. I don't care if a Reaktor B4 uses half my CPU, that would kick ass. They could even lock down the tonewheel engine and leslie into their own uneditable core macros and it would still kick ass. I'd rather they lock some parts of instruments to keep their IP secure but allow us to make use of them in interesting ways in our own instruments.

I would also really like to see them focus on better tools for U/I creation in Reaktor. If I had my way, they'd merge Kontakt Reaktor and Guitar Rig, give Reaktor Kontakt Scripting and core compoents for the Kontakt engine, let them load VSTs as a Reaktor Instrument or Kontakt libraries as a Reaktor Instrument. They could call it Kontaktor Rig, I'd sell everything else. (Ok, not really, but I'd use it a lot though).

[seamoss]

I know this isn't really what the thread is about but I will throw it out anyway....

I just recently bought a DX7 (TX7) and I must say that it really sounds a lot different (Better, IMO) than FM8. With all the DX7 editors out there for computers, I highly recommend people that don't mind hardware to go for the real thing. Sure, typical DX7 patches are overused and a bit cheesy but once you have a nice editor, you can really get some unique sounds. There is just that sparkle on the top end (12 bit/converters?) that the software doesn't capture.

I bought the TX7 (Desktop DX7) for $150 and couldn't be happier with it.

[ghettosynth]

I know this isn't really what the thread is about but I will throw it out anyway....

I just recently bought a DX7 (TX7) and I must say that it really sounds a lot different (Better, IMO) than FM8. With all the DX7 editors out there for computers, I highly recommend people that don't mind hardware to go for the real thing. Sure, typical DX7 patches are overused and a bit cheesy but once you have a nice editor, you can really get some unique sounds. There is just that sparkle on the top end (12 bit/converters?) that the software doesn't capture.

I bought the TX7 (Desktop DX7) for $150 and couldn't be happier with it.

I have a TX802 and I would say that the difference is most often subtle at best. I think that some patches probably do sound better. However, the big win with FM8, and why my TX802 sits mostly idle, is that it has filters as a part of the synth engine. That's really all FM with a limited number of operators and humans creating the sounds ever needed. Sometimes you just need to take that harsh edge off and you have the perfect sound.

I would like to see someone really push FM in software. FS1R style with FM8 style algorithm matrix and high quality filters all pushed to very high oversampling so that your CPU cries in pain.

[seamoss]

I know this isn't really what the thread is about but I will throw it out anyway....

I just recently bought a DX7 (TX7) and I must say that it really sounds a lot different (Better, IMO) than FM8. With all the DX7 editors out there for computers, I highly recommend people that don't mind hardware to go for the real thing. Sure, typical DX7 patches are overused and a bit cheesy but once you have a nice editor, you can really get some unique sounds. There is just that sparkle on the top end (12 bit/converters?) that the software doesn't capture.

I bought the TX7 (Desktop DX7) for $150 and couldn't be happier with it.

I have a TX802 and I would say that the difference is most often subtle at best. I think that some patches probably do sound better. However, the big win with FM8, and why my TX802 sits mostly idle, is that it has filters as a part of the synth engine. That's really all FM with a limited number of operators and humans creating the sounds ever needed. Sometimes you just need to take that harsh edge off and you have the perfect sound.

I would like to see someone really push FM in software. FS1R style with FM8 style algorithm matrix and high quality filters all pushed to very high oversampling so that your CPU cries in pain.

yeah, not sure. For me, it was a huge difference. I was messing with FM8 as well as Dexed for many months trying to get that sparkle that the DX7 has and just couldn't do it. As soon as my TX7 arrived and I plugged it in, it was there. For me it was night and day difference.

There is also a youtube clip that compared the DX7 and FM8. It was pretty noticeable there too.

Again, not knocking the software by any means. They can do some really great things that the DX7 can't. I am not a "hardware is better than software" kind of guy. I just hear here a pretty big difference when comparing the two.

[SODDI]

I think that this is a really heavily requested feature request for Reaktor. I would like to see it offer VST hosting. That would be awesome.

Alternatively, I would also enjoy them porting FM8 and Absynth to Reaktor as ensembles. Especially if they weren't going to lock them down. That way at least I could change the bits that I don't like, e.g, they both have mediocre analog filters.

I really like Reaktor, I'm fine with them just focusing on improving their general solutions, Kontakt, Reaktor, Guitar Rig, and Maschine. I just want to see them develop their past instruments more seriously. I'd like to see B4 come back as a Reaktor instrument. That would have been a much better choice than just sampling it.

What is great about Reaktor instruments is that, for people like me, at least, we can edit them, change them slightly and make them our own in ways that matter to us. I don't care if a Reaktor B4 uses half my CPU, that would kick ass. They could even lock down the tonewheel engine and leslie into their own uneditable core macros and it would still kick ass. I'd rather they lock some parts of instruments to keep their IP secure but allow us to make use of them in interesting ways in our own instruments.

I would also really like to see them focus on better tools for U/I creation in Reaktor. If I had my way, they'd merge Kontakt Reaktor and Guitar Rig, give Reaktor Kontakt Scripting and core compoents for the Kontakt engine, let them load VSTs as a Reaktor Instrument or Kontakt libraries as a Reaktor Instrument. They could call it Kontaktor Rig, I'd sell everything else. (Ok, not really, but I'd use it a lot though

Thinking about Reaktor as a host for modules... most of the NI synths have common modular features like x number of envelopes and y numbers of LFOs, MIDI control and audio output. When they are VSTi, each individual instrument .dll has got to have its own MIDI and audio functions.

If one could "dock" the feature components of an NI synth inside a master control module - the 3 osc + filter sections of Absynth or the sampling engine of Kontakt - you could use the Reaktor shell to handle all the MIDI and audio functions and the resulting instrument could be much "lighter".

(and if I had my druthers, I'd like to see the Massive LFO and envelope section used as the basic mod array.)

I'm not so sure about Guitar Rig...

[EvilDragon]

Not so sure..Does FS1R have filter keyboard tracking? FM8 is lacking on this one. The filter just acts like a polyphonic fixed resonant filter ( which can in fact be good for imitating natural resonant bodies).

FM8 does have keytracking on the filter (see KeySc tab, operator Z).


Also FS1R does have keytracking, too.

OTOH, FM8 has all the features an FM synth can have, like for example those we could find on the SY series, or the FS1R, to just name two illustrious FM successors done by Yamaha.

FM8 doesn't have all FS1R features, Fernando. It doesn't have 16 operators (8 voiced, 8 unvoiced), first and foremost, and then it has no formant sequencing, which are two major FS1R points.

[SODDI]

I know this isn't really what the thread is about but I will throw it out anyway....

I just recently bought a DX7 (TX7) and I must say that it really sounds a lot different (Better, IMO) than FM8. With all the DX7 editors out there for computers, I highly recommend people that don't mind hardware to go for the real thing. Sure, typical DX7 patches are overused and a bit cheesy but once you have a nice editor, you can really get some unique sounds. There is just that sparkle on the top end (12 bit/converters?) that the software doesn't capture.

I bought the TX7 (Desktop DX7) for $150 and couldn't be happier with it.

I have a TX802 and I would say that the difference is most often subtle at best. I think that some patches probably do sound better. However, the big win with FM8, and why my TX802 sits mostly idle, is that it has filters as a part of the synth engine. That's really all FM with a limited number of operators and humans creating the sounds ever needed. Sometimes you just need to take that harsh edge off and you have the perfect sound.

I would like to see someone really push FM in software. FS1R style with FM8 style algorithm matrix and high quality filters all pushed to very high oversampling so that your CPU cries in pain.

yeah, not sure. For me, it was a huge difference. I was messing with FM8 as well as Dexed for many months trying to get that sparkle that the DX7 has and just couldn't do it. As soon as my TX7 arrived and I plugged it in, it was there. For me it was night and day difference.

There is also a youtube clip that compared the DX7 and FM8. It was pretty noticeable there too.

Again, not knocking the software by any means. They can do some really great things that the DX7 can't. I am not a "hardware is better than software" kind of guy. I just hear here a pretty big difference when comparing the two.

There's probably a nice little bit of distortion caused by the hardware synth's analog out.

[seamoss]

seems there are lot of different theories of why the DX7 sounds different than the FM8

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... 7-fm8.html

[fmr]

OTOH, FM8 has all the features an FM synth can have, like for example those we could find on the SY series, or the FS1R, to just name two illustrious FM successors done by Yamaha.

Not so sure..Does FS1R have filter keyboard tracking? FM8 is lacking on this one. The filter just acts like a polyphonic fixed resonant filter ( which can in fact be good for imitating natural resonant bodies).

I was being sarcastic.

[fmr]

OTOH, FM8 has all the features an FM synth can have, like for example those we could find on the SY series, or the FS1R, to just name two illustrious FM successors done by Yamaha.

FM8 doesn't have all FS1R features, Fernando. It doesn't have 16 operators (8 voiced, 8 unvoiced), first and foremost, and then it has no formant sequencing, which are two major FS1R points.

Seems like sarcasm doesn't quite get through over Internet I thought the rolling eyes would be enough to give a clue, but apparently they weren't. I was answering to that guy that said FM8 was enough for him, because it had what he wanted about FM, and that NI should instead cocentrate in the filters and emulations (which is kind of what everybody is doing nowadays, or so it seems).

Of course FM8 doesn't have the features of FS1R (or even of SY series). That's why a FM9 could be a good thing, if Ni chooses to go in that direction.

[waltercruz]

I think that updated versions of FM8, Massive or Absynth are quite improbable (but possible).

Massive was prototyped in Reaktor. From this article (10 years of NI, and debut of Massive, we read):

One of the goals of the synth was to take advantage of newer, faster CPUs to push the boundaries of how good the sound could be, and how close to analogue they could get. "We tried to come as close as possible to the prototypes in Reaktor in the C++ engine," Product Manager Frank Elting explains, "and we transferred all the oversampling things we did in Reaktor to the engine. If possible we wanted to get the Reaktor pure sound, without too many thoughts of CPU consumption." This meant using high sample rates both at the sound-generation stage and the envelope and modulation stages. The result is an amazing depth and clarity, and a huge range over which sounds can be swept and modulated without digital artifacts.

So, they wanted the 'Reaktor' sound + less CPU. but these days, the CPUs are faster and Reaktor runs faster (maybe not fast enough, but almost enough).

FM synths, from all the interviews that I've read, are a particular passion of NI Founter, Stephan Schmitt, but his main development of synths now are focused on Spark and their evolutions (CHA-OSC, Phase 22 and Kontour).

There's yet a big space for both synths, but now there's a lot of competition too. From the last 2 or 3 years, probably we will see NI doing a lot of niche and experimental synths in Reaktor.

https://bigbrainaudio.com/2012/03/news/ ... he-future/
https://bigbrainaudio.com/2011/09/inter ... n-schmitt/
http://www.nonlinear-labs.de/technology ... ase22.html

[dpasdernick]

I love FM synthesis and have FM8. Recently I just bought a Yamaha SY99 and a Yamaha DX7 IIFD with Grey Matter E! There's no doubt in my mind that the original hardware sounds much better than FM8 BUT... there's a lot of cables and extra work to use the "real thing".

My wish for FM9 would be to make it multitimbral like a Yamaha TX816. Layering 8 FM sounds with slight detuning and stereo panning can create timbres that are just this side of heaven.

[dune_rave]

Yeah, it would be good to have layering, without that, I have to load FL inside Reaper, Patcher inside Fl, Keyboard splitter in Patcher....

[ghettosynth]

At the rate things are going, I'm not seeing it happen TBH. I expect that we'll see more evolution of Steven Schmidt's FMesqe synths in Reaktor instead.