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chk071
KVRAF
 
13796 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:21 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

In ACE and Bazille you have to patch modulations. In Hive you have to apply modulations in the mod matrix, or even do some kind of patching via drag & drop modulations. I don't see the difference. Yet i see a lot of non-standard things (for subtractive synths, which the most will be familiar with) in Bazille, and also in ACE, so, you'll have to at least make yourself comfortable with these things, and read the manual, making it, yes, more difficult to understand, at least for a layperson. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the one or the other is better. But, you said, Hive and ACE are more difficult to grasp than Bazille. Surely not.
Good synths don't have a sweet spot. They ARE the sweet spot.
chk071
KVRAF
 
13796 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:22 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Dasheesh wrote:
chk071 wrote:Says where? In the manual? Well, right.


You're thinking about it too hard. It does what it says it does.

What does that even mean? Does what? Generate a lag? What lag? Where? I never heard of a lag generator before Bazille.
Good synths don't have a sweet spot. They ARE the sweet spot.
Dasheesh
KVRAF
 
1943 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Postby Dasheesh; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:26 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

It just lags the signal. That's all it does. So if you want an event to take place a little bit slewed. Use a lag modual to delay the signal a little. And there will be geeks that come on here and try to give you some page long detailed explanation of exact perceived and mathematical blah, blah, blah.... it just lags the signal a little. Common sense.
Dasheesh
KVRAF
 
1943 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Postby Dasheesh; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:27 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Have fun guys, I've had my say this morning.
chk071
KVRAF
 
13796 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:30 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Dasheesh wrote:Common sense.

Not quite. For example, i'm wondering, can it also be used to lag a LFO? Can it be used to lag an envelope? Or filter response? See, it's non-standard, and not present in other synths, so i don't know it, hence i don't know what things i can do with it, in general. I know what a LFO is though. Hence it will be easier for me to get into synths with a LFO, than in a synth which has a lag generator. And of course i could RTFM, but, that's not the point here. The point is that you argued that Bazille is easier to get into than Hive or ACE, and i can't see that at all.
Good synths don't have a sweet spot. They ARE the sweet spot.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9570 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:31 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

chk071 wrote:
Dasheesh wrote:
chk071 wrote:Says where? In the manual? Well, right.


You're thinking about it too hard. It does what it says it does.

What does that even mean? Does what? Generate a lag? What lag? Where? I never heard of a lag generator before Bazille.


I'm not a techy geek (most of this stuff is way over my head) but when I use the lag generator with the LFOs and the sequencer, I get some very interesting and random things going. One sequencer patch I created is literally an infinite non repeating loop.

When I get a chance, I'll put together a 5 minute drone of the sequence and you can hear what I mean. And each time you play it, it will play a different pattern.

Bazille is probably the coolest synth I own hands down. You can do things with it that are simply impossible with any other synth out there. I don't care what synth you name. No other synth can do what this thing can do.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9570 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:33 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

chk071 wrote:
Dasheesh wrote:Common sense.

Not quite. For example, i'm wondering, can it also be used to lag a LFO? Can it be used to lag an envelope? Or filter response? See, it's non-standard, and not present in other synths, so i don't know it, hence i don't know what things i can do with it, in general. I know what a LFO is though. Hence it will be easier for me to get into synths with a LFO, than in a synth which has a lag generator. And of course i could RTFM, but, that's not the point here. The point is that you argued that Bazille is easier to get into than Hive or ACE, and i can't see that at all.


FWIW, Bazille is FAR from the easiest synth you can get into or, for that matter, easier than ACE or Hive.

Some people just like to show off their incredible intellect.

I've learned to ignore them.

Bazille is a synth that you literally have to take one control at a time until you understand how each control works. Then you have to start combining those controls with other controls to see how they work in tandem.

Easy? Far from it.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12561 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:37 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

chk071 wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Not sure why would ACE be more difficult to understand than Bazille.

Me neither. But then, i wouldn't know why Hive is more difficult to understand than Bazille either, so. :shrug: Hive is very straight forward. I don't think 10 % of the people approaching Bazille really knew what a "lag generator" is, e.g. Or a rectifier. Or what "Fractalize" does. I don't think anyone familiar with subtractive synthesis has a problem with figuring everything in Hive out, however. ACE isn't too difficult compared either.


It took me months to learn how to effectively use all the modules I had never heard of before in Bazille. There is a different modulation logic. Now I miss things like Lag Generators, Quantizers etc in other synths.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12561 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:01 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Dasheesh wrote:It just lags the signal. That's all it does. So if you want an event to take place a little bit slewed. Use a lag modual to delay the signal a little. And there will be geeks that come on here and try to give you some page long detailed explanation of exact perceived and mathematical blah, blah, blah.... it just lags the signal a little. Common sense.


That is what I thought from the descriptive term. (I had never heard of a Lag Generator before Bazille either)... It does not delay the signal. There is no time delay at all. It filters the signal.
ENV1
KVRAF
 
2025 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Postby ENV1; Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:28 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

pdxindy wrote:(I had never heard of a Lag Generator before Bazille either)... It does not delay the signal. There is no time delay at all. It filters the signal.

A lag generator quite simply slows down the rise and/or fall of a source-voltage.

This quite literally generates a lag.

The ARP 2600 has one too.
chk071
KVRAF
 
13796 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:05 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

See that's just what i mean. :P "Common sense" just won't cut it, if you really want to understand a feature in depth, or even from the ground up.
Good synths don't have a sweet spot. They ARE the sweet spot.
recursive one
KVRAF
 
3046 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Postby recursive one; Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:12 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Tbh i have an impression that someone with no synth programming experience whatsoever has more chances to learn bazille in depth and actually understand how it works than people who are comfortable with programming normal subtractive or wavetable synths.

This is the only thing which keeps me from buying bazille cause it sounds exceptional.
I hate incomplete sentences because they ...
ENV1
KVRAF
 
2025 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Postby ENV1; Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:54 am Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

chk071 wrote:See that's just what i mean. :P "Common sense" just won't cut it, if you really want to understand a feature in depth, or even from the ground up.

An example of a lag generator which everyone is familiar with would be Glide. More intensity = more pitch-lag from one note to the next, less intensity = less pitch-lag from one note to the next.

A lag generator as a patchable module is exactly the same thing, the only difference is that you can patch-in whatever source signal you want and then send it to whatever target you want.

And yes, it can be used on anything. LFOs, EGs, S&Hs, anything that outputs a rising/falling voltage. (Just always think in voltage when youre working with modulars and youll pretty much always know what will happen when you connect this to that.)
Terrafractyl
KVRist
 
311 posts since 15 Nov, 2005, from Melbourne Australia

Postby Terrafractyl; Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:07 pm Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Its all about context!

i used modular synths for years before I opened Bazille for the first time, so the Lag generator, rectifier, these were all VERY familiar to me. Lag gen is usually called a Slew limiter, just to confuse things ever more.
But still I knew exactly what it was.

When I opened up Serum's Osc edit tab for the first time, I didn't have a literal clue what half the options even did.
Hypnagog (Experimental Electronica) |
Terrafractyl (Psytrance) |Kinematic Records (Label)
recursive one
KVRAF
 
3046 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Postby recursive one; Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:10 pm Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

And here we have an excellent explanation from someone who didnt just learn few buzzwords and now tries to look cool but actually understands what is going on.

Thanks a ton, ENV1 :tu:
I hate incomplete sentences because they ...
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