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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
10192 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:31 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

experimental.crow wrote:I'm saying that we have no reference point to your assertions , and thus , they are meaningless , and you should refrain from bringing them up ...


Yup!
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12378 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:57 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

experimental.crow wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
experimental.crow wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Benjamin923 wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:I'm pretty sure that this is market driven. My sense of this was that Softube was hoping to capitalize on the fetish for authentic emulation that seems so pervasive in the effects and virtual analog synth market but I don't think that fetishism extends into the modular market so much, with perhaps the exception of a few very popular modules, but that also to the extent that it does, those customers aren't really that interested in software. Interestingly, I think that of some of the modules that it does, they're really open source digital modules and so are in VCV without cost.

IOW, neither vendors nor consumers are knocking down the door asking for authentic emulations of modules.

You're almost certainly correct. It's likely that this product model of having individual modules for sale didn't produce sufficient revenue to justify the development time for said modules. Softube probably have other software they can develop in a comparable time frame to a few modules which generates greater revenue than those few modules combined would. They were trying something new here with Modular, and the market doesn't seem to have been excited enough about it. :scared:


I don't know. My Softube library destroys all my other libraries in sales. So where are all these customers coming from if there is no demand?


well , we could all guess as to how many units that might be , or you could tell us ...
i'm thinking that there are quite a few more reaktor licences out there , than there
are softube modular licenses ...

i could be mistaken though ...


Are you suggesting that if I did libraries for Reaktor Ensembles that they would outsell Softube?


i'm suggesting nothing of the sort ...
your business , to which you refer constantly , is a murky pond ,
and such it should remain ...

i'm saying that we have no reference point to your assertions , and thus , they are meaningless , and you should refrain from bringing them up ...


Hey you know what? I can bring up anything I damn well please around here.

How do you like THEM apples?
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12378 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:15 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

And before ANYBODY comes back at me.

A short time ago, we were having a discussion here with Urs about what his best selling synths were because the subject came up about synth popularity and how many sales a company makes that there is really no way to tell.

During that conversation, Urs mentioned that Zebra 2 was his best selling synth. Now nobody came at him demanding numbers or telling him to shut up if he didn't give any numbers. So why should I be treated any differently?

I deserve the same amount of respect in regard to the privacy of my numbers.

And that's ALL I'm going to say on this matter.
experimental.crow
KVRAF
 
5389 posts since 9 Mar, 2003, from The Druid Hills

Postby experimental.crow; Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:38 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

wagtunes wrote:And before ANYBODY comes back at me.

A short time ago, we were having a discussion here with Urs about what his best selling synths were because the subject came up about synth popularity and how many sales a company makes that there is really no way to tell.

During that conversation, Urs mentioned that Zebra 2 was his best selling synth. Now nobody came at him demanding numbers or telling him to shut up if he didn't give any numbers. So why should I be treated any differently?

I deserve the same amount of respect in regard to the privacy of my numbers.

And that's ALL I'm going to say on this matter.


i'll consider myself suitably admonished ...
as a person , you deserve the same amount of respect as anyone else ...
i'm not indulging in name calling , and i'm assuming i'm having a conversation
w/ an adult ... you are free to disagree w/ my opinion , and you have ...

please remind yourself of the context under which this was raised ...
you asserted that your sales of softube modular presets showed a market demand for
the product that another poster said was lacking ... it was this i addressed , and called
into question , as we are lacking a reference point ... as you are wont to do this repeatedly , i asked that you refrain ...

i'll take that back ...
please continue to make assertions that no one can ascertain the verisimilitude of ...

the amount of respect you are owed as a business operator is a different matter ...
talk is cheap ... whisky costs money ...
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12378 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

experimental.crow wrote:
wagtunes wrote:And before ANYBODY comes back at me.

A short time ago, we were having a discussion here with Urs about what his best selling synths were because the subject came up about synth popularity and how many sales a company makes that there is really no way to tell.

During that conversation, Urs mentioned that Zebra 2 was his best selling synth. Now nobody came at him demanding numbers or telling him to shut up if he didn't give any numbers. So why should I be treated any differently?

I deserve the same amount of respect in regard to the privacy of my numbers.

And that's ALL I'm going to say on this matter.


i'll consider myself suitably admonished ...
as a person , you deserve the same amount of respect as anyone else ...
i'm not indulging in name calling , and i'm assuming i'm having a conversation
w/ an adult ... you are free to disagree w/ my opinion , and you have ...

please remind yourself of the context under which this was raised ...
you asserted that your sales of softube modular presets showed a market demand for
the product that another poster said was lacking ... it was this i addressed , and called
into question , as we are lacking a reference point ... as you are wont to do this repeatedly , i asked that you refrain ...

i'll take that back ...
please continue to make assertions that no one can ascertain the verisimilitude of ...

the amount of respect you are owed as a business operator is a different matter ...
talk is cheap ... whisky costs money ...


Okay, you want numbers, I'll give you numbers.

These are my top 5 selling libraries (after Softube) and the relationship in sales between Softube and them.

Serum - 86.7% of Softube's sales
Falcon - 71.6% of Softube's sales
Omnisphere 1 - 66% of Softube's sales
Zebra 2 - 43.3% of Softube's sales
Avenger - 43.3% of Softube's sales
Omnisphere 2 - 41.5% of Softube's sales

If every single one of my libraries did as well as these, I'd be rolling in it. But unfortunately, way too many of my libraries hardly sell at all, which is why I'm slowly moving to just doing libraries for my top sellers, as was suggested to do by several of the members here.

As you can see, it's the upper end synths that do well. Synths that sell for under $100 are a waste of my time. That's why I'm done buying synths. It's pointless. In some cases, I just about break even, which is pathetic.

Okay, you wanted numbers, you got numbers.
experimental.crow
KVRAF
 
5389 posts since 9 Mar, 2003, from The Druid Hills

Postby experimental.crow; Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:27 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

clears that right up , then ...
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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perpetual3
KVRist
 
278 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Postby perpetual3; Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:36 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

Just to chime in with my 2¢ here, but I’ve read lots of threads with contributions by wagtunes and I don’t understand the why anybody has a problem with him. From my perspective, the attitude so many take with him is simply rude. Of course I have not read every post over the years so, perhaps I’m simply ignorant. But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.
JerGoertz
KVRAF
 
1961 posts since 19 Feb, 2004

Postby JerGoertz; Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:51 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

perpetual3 wrote:Just to chime in with my 2¢ here, but I’ve read lots of threads with contributions by wagtunes and I don’t understand the why anybody has a problem with him. From my perspective, the attitude so many take with him is simply rude. Of course I have not read every post over the years so, perhaps I’m simply ignorant. But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.


I think it's not good, too. It seems some people like to get a rise out of him and the rudeness is largely uncalled for.
A well-behaved signature.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12378 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:55 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

perpetual3 wrote:Just to chime in with my 2¢ here, but I’ve read lots of threads with contributions by wagtunes and I don’t understand the why anybody has a problem with him. From my perspective, the attitude so many take with him is simply rude. Of course I have not read every post over the years so, perhaps I’m simply ignorant. But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.


This is the Internet. Anonymity does this. I've been having to deal with it since I first got online in 1997 during the early chat room days.

Most people here wouldn't DARE say some of the things they say here to your face in real life, especially in front of a room full of people. Know why? Because everybody in the room would be looking at them thinking to themselves "what a jackass."

You'd think after 21 years I'd be used to it. Nope. I have less tolerance for it now than I did then.

At the same time, there are days when I'm like "Yeah, whatever."

Today was not one of those days.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12378 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:59 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

JerGoertz wrote:
perpetual3 wrote:Just to chime in with my 2¢ here, but I’ve read lots of threads with contributions by wagtunes and I don’t understand the why anybody has a problem with him. From my perspective, the attitude so many take with him is simply rude. Of course I have not read every post over the years so, perhaps I’m simply ignorant. But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.


I think it's not good, too. It seems some people like to get a rise out of him and the rudeness is largely uncalled for.


I'm an easy target and I admit it. They know it doesn't take much to get me to fly off the handle. For them it's a show. Hell, I've actually had people here admit they love getting a rise out of me because it's so easy. Hey, at least they're honest.

That's why I spend way less time in Instruments than I used to. Most of my time now is spent in Music Cafe and I prefer it that way. There's really not a lot here for me anymore. I am done buying synths. I have all the FX I need. Right now, I just want to spend my time making music and sharing it with the forum. I don't get a lot of listens or comments, but it's okay, For the most part, guys over there are at least civil.

Anyway, don't worry about me. I'm fine.
acYm
KVRian
 
593 posts since 11 Sep, 2015

Postby acYm; Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:21 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

perpetual3 wrote:But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.


He takes up half the forum space and wears the off-subject crown undisputed while doing so. He also has this solid, regular habit of coming to conclusions based on his library sales.

NOBODY CARES about his library sales.

With those percentages, my estimate for his SM library is 31 copies sold.
perpetual3
KVRist
 
278 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Postby perpetual3; Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:32 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

acYm wrote:
perpetual3 wrote:But from what I have seen, this rudeness and disrespect towards him is unwarranted.


He takes up half the forum space and wears the off-subject crown undisputed while doing so. He also has this solid, regular habit of coming to conclusions based on his library sales.

NOBODY CARES about his library sales.

With those percentages, my estimate for his SM library is 31 copies sold.


No offense, man, but you just make my point. Take up half the forum space? Seriously? Why can’t he form his opinion based on his own experience? Isn’t that what you do? What’s wrong with him sharing his opinion about synth plugins in a synth plugin forum?

Basically what you’re saying is nobody cares about his opinion. But I bet some people do care, they are just not as “loud” as the people who get their kicks from anonymously provoking people on the internet.
ghettosynth
KVRAF
 
10963 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:53 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

Wags, you're not really groking the point though. Your library sales are not evidence that my point is incorrect, in fact, they really aren't evidence of much of anything. If I were to conjecture what your sales mean I would argue that they indicate that (your) customers are confused and/or intimidated by modular synthesis.

That said, we really have NO idea how representative your customers are of the synth market in general. Sorry mate, but part of the reason for this is that we have no way of estimating the size of your customer base. I've never seen a print magazine ad for your company, not true for Urs and friends. We may not know Urs' numbers but we have enough data to back of the envelope it. We know how many people he employs for example.

I think that you're misreading people. Nobody actually cares about how successful your company is. What people are asking for is that if you are going to use your own firm as a basis for argument that you support that argument with data in some way. Urs does that, so if you want the same respect that Urs gets then you should follow his lead a bit more closely.
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martinjuenke
KVRAF
 
1548 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:24 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

experimental.crow wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
experimental.crow wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
I don't know. My Softube library destroys all my other libraries in sales. So where are all these customers coming from if there is no demand?


well , we could all guess as to how many units that might be , or you could tell us ...
i'm thinking that there are quite a few more reaktor licences out there , than there
are softube modular licenses ...

i could be mistaken though ...


Are you suggesting that if I did libraries for Reaktor Ensembles that they would outsell Softube?


i'm suggesting nothing of the sort ...
your business , to which you refer constantly , is a murky pond ,
and such it should remain ...

i'm saying that we have no reference point to your assertions , and thus , they are meaningless , and you should refrain from bringing them up ...

IMO the mistake is to see Wagtunes soundsets as a business… From my point of view it‘s a hobby for him after being retired. We should respect his self choosen pastime and don‘t take his self-referentiality too serious.
Music was my first love ...
atmospheric electronic music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com
cthonophonic
KVRist
 
64 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Postby cthonophonic; Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:35 pm Re: Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

One thing to consider is that there just aren't that many Softube Modular presets out there for sale. Search for "softube modular" in the Soundware forum, and literally all the results are about the two wagtunes libraries. I'm not going to search for all the other synths, but for example, there are 87 threads with some variation of "zebra" in the title, with 20 of those being started in the last year. Those numbers are certainly a more accurate representation of the popularity of the various synths, but they also help explain the relative success of the Modular presets within wagtunes' lineup: basically nobody else is selling presets for it.
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