Reaktor Blocks vs. Softube Modular

[wagtunes]

Understood wag.
It has something to do with the approach as well ofcourse. I like to be able to get one or two layers deep. Once i realized that SM won't allow that, sure, the 1 layer approach with only pre-baked modules, is easier.

I think you're looking at SM wrong if you view it as only one layer of pre-baked modules. Blocks is an abstraction on top of a graphical programming language. If anything, it is a hack, a workaround to conceal the complexity of developing with Reaktor. SM, on the other hand, is a software emulation of a eurorack modular- nothing more, nothing less. It isn't a programming language or an instrument building framework. It is an exacting recreation of specific, real hardware modules which exist in the real world. In this respect, it has more in common with U-he's emulations, or specifically Monark in the NI ecosystem, rather than all of Reaktor itself. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have both and enjoy both. But it is important to understand the different design objectives of these two modular frameworks.

You can call it whatever you want. It still is a 1-layer instrument with pre-baked modules. This isn't its weak point. Sry if i came across bashing SM for that. Because that was not my intention

I am aware that it is intended as an 'emulation'. However, i was "hoping" for a bit more depth.

Well, to be fair, a Eurorack system doesn't have the depth of Reaktor. All Eurorack is, is a bunch of hardware modules that you patch together. You can't create your own modules like you can with Reaktor.

SM was essentially meant to emulate Eurorack hardware, not Reaktor.

Having said that, I'm not looking to build my own modules, as nice as that would be. I just want to be able to stick flap A into slot B and get a useful sound out of it as easy as I can with SM, something I am struggling to do.

[GaryG]

There is no logical explanation for it. It just is what it is.

Absolutely, some people get some things other don't and vice versa. Pertinent example here is music theory, no matter how many times I've *really* tried to get it, I always end up forgetting it all again. Whereas, you can write a bloody symphony! I know it's not what the motivational posters tell us but sometimes we need to realise our limitations and concentrate on what we're good at, no one's good at everything (well, some very annoying people seem to be. )

[dave dove]

the problem is that in Reaktor the connections between blocks are different
for a simple synth you need:
note in, oscillator, filter, vca and adsr

note in module:
pitch connected to oscillator pitch
gate connected to adsr gate

oscillator module:
out to filter in

filter module:
out to vca in

vca module:
out to outputs 1&2

all straightforward so far but once you open up the vca and play a note it goes on and on and on forever
so turn the level dial down to zero

to fix this (and this is where reaktor blocks differ)
each block has two mod inputs - a&b:

adsr module:
out to vca mod a

now go to main panel:
left click A
a semi-opaque vertical slider will appear next to the level control
slide this all the way up remembering the level dial should be at zero
now the vca is fully controlled by the adsr
and you can play notes and fiddle with the adsr

same with the filter
wither with the same adsr or another one....

dave

[exmatproton]

Well, to be fair, a Eurorack system doesn't have the depth of Reaktor. All Eurorack is, is a bunch of hardware modules that you patch together. You can't create your own modules like you can with Reaktor.

SM was essentially meant to emulate Eurorack hardware, not Reaktor.

Having said that, I'm not looking to build my own modules, as nice as that would be. I just want to be able to stick flap A into slot B and get a useful sound out of it as easy as I can with SM, something I am struggling to do.

What do you mean "to be fair"?? I am fair? I was only hoping for a bit more depth, that's all. I am not asking for a second reaktor and i never stated that here. I was just giving my thoughts about the thread title.

Also, i think that SM is a great piece of software. But since we are comparing the two (which is honestly not quite fair to begin with) i can be fair AND state my opninion and my 'hopes' about trying SM compared to Reaktor.

[wagtunes]

the problem is that in Reaktor the connections between blocks are different
for a simple synth you need:
note in, oscillator, filter, vca and adsr

note in module:
pitch connected to oscillator pitch
gate connected to adsr gate

oscillator module:
out to filter in

filter module:
out to vca in

vca module:
out to outputs 1&2

all straightforward so far but once you open up the vca and play a note it goes on and on and on forever
so turn the level dial down to zero

to fix this (and this is where reaktor blocks differ)
each block has two mod inputs - a&b:

adsr module:
out to vca mod a

now go to main panel:
left click A
a semi-opaque vertical slider will appear next to the level control
slide this all the way up remembering the level dial should be at zero
now the vca is fully controlled by the adsr
and you can play notes and fiddle with the adsr

same with the filter
wither with the same adsr or another one....

dave

Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.

The lights FINALLY came on.

See, with SM, concerning the VCA, the filter goes into the VCA input and the ADSR gets connected to the CV. But in Reaktor, there is no CV. There's just mod A and B and the gates. So I'm trying everything to get the VCA not to stay on but nothing was working.

It's that extra step of bringing up the slider for A or B that I guess essentially sets the level of control module A has on module B.

That's what I was missing.

Now it all makes sense. And yes, given that one simple thing, with the number of modules that Reaktor has in comparison to SM, PLUS the fact that you can create your own modules, given you have the brains to do that (I don't), you obviously have a much more sophisticated and powerful system.

Again, thank you.

[JoeCat]

^ LOL something so simple

Yeah, most people get the gates but it's not obvious in Reaktor that the VCA is not modulated by an envelope by default

At any rate, it's IMHO it's a visualization thing - like you said Wags, with SM everything's up in front. You gotta kinda know (and remember) what's going on behind the scenes, and what you have to take care of.

But once you get the basic connections, you can do a lot from the front with that given modulations.

Enjoy!

[dave dove]

@wagtunes
You're welcome
Now the fun bit is this:
Because everything works at samplerate
You can stick pretty much any block output into any mod a or b input
Including audio....

Dave

[deastman]

Another way of putting it is that each blocks module has two cv modulation busses, A and B. You can connect anything to the inputs of those busses, and then within the module you determine what they are routed to control and by what amount.

Another interesting point to make is that there is nothing magical about these two busses. You could open up the module and modify it to have fifty different busses if you really wanted to. The A and B busses are just part of the standardized spec which NI came up with to make things easier and consistent for users.

[ghettosynth]

See, with SM, concerning the VCA, the filter goes into the VCA input and the ADSR gets connected to the CV. But in Reaktor, there is no CV. There's just mod A and B and the gates. So I'm trying everything to get the VCA not to stay on but nothing was working.

Reaktor can work exactly like this as well, as soon as you realize that a VCA is really little more than a multiply. The scaling (modulation) inputs are little more than another multiply in line connected to a control that goes from zero to one, negative one to one if you want negative scaling.

All of the fancy blocks stuff is just there to make the framework generic for all of the modules and, also, to make audio rate modulation fairly clean. Once you figure it out, it's the same for everything. So there's a lot of work that allows you to adapt your patch without recabling. The A/B modulators can be turned up or down for any number of different destinations.

[Fernando Carvalho]

I have both and love both of them.

If I had to choose I would go with reaktor first. The included blocks are really good, add to these the Euro Reakt suite by Michael Hetrick and you could spend half life just with that. And this is just the tip of the iceberg in Reaktor world.

ITOH Softube Modular may be more recomendable if you are just starting with modular stuff, and if you are specially interested in eurorack SM is the closest thing in software. Personally I can´t wait to see how it develops in the future and what new modules it will bring. Amazing times!

[felis]

I bet many buy Reaktor only to abandon it, because it's too technical or engineering orientated than an instrument.

Don't get me wrong, there is a place for the modular geek (I am just as geeky) but the end goal is supposed to be music or at least some kind of usuable preset.

This is what happened to me. I bought Komplete 5 about 10 years ago.
Took a peek at the manuals and thought, "Man - I don't have time for this",
working too many hours and so on.
I ended up using some of the included instruments, and a few from the library.
I had played around with it years before, when it was Generator too.

Recently updated to Komplete 11 and thought I would give it another try,
as I have bit more time now.
I've upped its priority a bit and made some progress with it, but it's slow going for me.
I play other acoustic instruments that demand time too.

I have definite goals for this program, and probably won't go much further
with it when I achieve them. I'm not really a modular geek at heart, I guess.

[SODDI]

I was really disappointed by Reaktor 6 & Blocks because after years of building in Reaktor 3-5 I already have built dozens of my own macros (or lifted them from someone else; thanks guys!) and the Blocks honestly aren't as good as my own. I spent a lot of time, energy and brainpower on modulation routings that would emulate modular synths.

I was disappointed that none of the new macros were anything that would really knock one's socks off, electronically and sonically.

[deastman]

I was really disappointed by Reaktor 6 & Blocks because after years of building in Reaktor 3-5 I already have built dozens of my own macros (or lifted them from someone else; thanks guys!) and the Blocks honestly aren't as good as my own. I spent a lot of time, energy and brainpower on modulation routings that would emulate modular synths.

I was disappointed that none of the new macros were anything that would really knock one's socks off, electronically and sonically.

That's fair enough, but you're an advanced Reaktor builder. I believe NI had accurately identified a problem with their software: finished instruments were good for most users, and their graphical programming language worked well for instrument builders, but the middle ground of modular users who might be inclined to use something like eurorack were being left out in the cold. They came up with a solution for this mid-level crowd, and I think it is pretty clear that it has been a huge success for them. That's important, because growing the user base is essential to ensuring the longevity of the product.

[fmr]

I was really disappointed by Reaktor 6 & Blocks because after years of building in Reaktor 3-5 I already have built dozens of my own macros (or lifted them from someone else; thanks guys!) and the Blocks honestly aren't as good as my own. I spent a lot of time, energy and brainpower on modulation routings that would emulate modular synths.

I was disappointed that none of the new macros were anything that would really knock one's socks off, electronically and sonically.

I agree. There are great Macro collections out there (Ampere collection, for example). Are yours publicly available too?

[gentleclockdivider]

I have to disagree .
The new reaktor macros, especially the zdf filters are amazing .
Ampere modular is nice , but not on par with the quality that blocks offer .