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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
7227 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:04 pm The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

There is actually one synth in this list that I don't own.

But even if you know me and my collection you wouldn't have a clue why I don't own it even if you knew what it was.

Take a trip to YouTube and pull up a "typical" tutorial on any of these synths and you'll hear something in common between all 4 of them aside from that they're all VSTs.

You would think, by the majority of stuff that's out there, that these synths were capable of doing only one thing.

And we all know what that is.

So why is it that I own 3 of these synths and not the 4th?

Well, one of them came in a collection. Would I have gone out of my way to buy it separately? Not a chance. But I got it so I use it, especially since it's a fine sounding synth. But so are the other 3.

The other two synths that I did get I got on sale. I would have never paid full price for either of them. Especially the one that I think is way overpriced even though, according to Splice, it's their most popular selling VST.

Oh, by the way, the majority of the most popular plugins are NOT synths but FX.

Something to think about.

Anyway, one synth that goes for $189 I got when it first came out for $129. Had it never gone on sale, I'd have never bought it, even though ironically it's my best selling library.

Another synth that goes for $169, I got for $149. It was enough of a discount that it was worth getting and has turned out to be one of my favorite synths and my 6th best selling library. Ironically, it is not even in the top 100 of Splice's plugins. Go figure.

So now you all know which of the 4 I didn't get.

It's $189. It's been $189, as far as I know, since the day I first heard of it. The same price as another synth I wouldn't have gotten at that price.

Does this synth sound great? Sure. So do the other 3.

And now we get back to the typical Youtube demo you're going to hear when checking this synth out.

I'm not hearing one blessed thing that makes me go "Oh wow, that's something those other synths can't do. This synth is really different."

And if you're gonna tell me that it has the best Supersaw sound of the 4, great, but who cares? I'm no more a supersaw comparing snob than I am a ladder filter comparing snob.

I just don't care.

So unless you've got something other than best supersaw sound on the planet, you'll bore me to tears.

And this is where I blame the developers of these synths.

Synths that don't have supersaws and can't make these "typical" EDM sounds can't target that market, so they have to go in a different direction. They have to show me something different only because it's all they've got.

That's why when I heard Softube Modular, I was interested.

That's why when I heard Bazille, I was interested.

That's why when I heard Synclavier V, I was interested.

If they only thing this synth has is "a great supersaw" then I am obviously not their target market because that's all you hear in demo after demo after demo. Either that or some EDM bass.

Now I'm not so stupid that I don't know that this synth is probably capable of doing more, just like I learned that the other 3 synths that I do have are capable of doing more.

But the developer and the hundreds of musicians out there demoing this thing aren't impressing me with yet another wub wub or supersaw patch.

And this is the problem with all of these synths. They're targeting one market and essentially saying "the hell with everybody else."

Well, that last synth isn't getting my money. Not for $189 for what is being marketed as yet another me too wub wub supersaw machine.

And it's a shame, because that 4th synth really does sound great.
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:15 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

Your loss. ;)
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:16 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

egbert101
KVRian
 
802 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Postby egbert101; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:18 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

So you don't own Spire. :hihi:

Yes it does sound great, and I don't have it for the same reasons: too expensive and I already own Predator 2, Synthmaster, Sylenth1, which covers the same general ground.

Yes, they're all targetting the most popular current types of genre that all fit under the umbrella term EDM, with only a splattering of old school meat and potato sounds, that could probably find in a sampler anyway.

Anyway, Spire is currently 20% off special offer. :hihi: but since I don't need it, it doesn't hold that value to me, but it's a great synth and an equal with the ones you listed above. [Okay Serum is much more advanced in terms of wavetables.]
AnX
KVRian
 
1455 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Postby AnX; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:23 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

Those 4 cover so much of the same ground im surprised you have 3 of them.
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:24 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

Maybe it would be worth considering what market you want to cater your soundset too. I'm not sure what kind of musical genres would make good use of your presets. Don't take this offensively (it's not meant to be really), but, your sounds seem a bit "special", meaning that that's really stuff i have hardly heard before, and with which i have a bit of a problem of categorizing it. Maybe it would be really helpful to figure out what musical genres you are aiming for, before buying your synths. If you take a look at the soundsets for Spire in Reveal-Sound's store, for example, 90% will be for EDM orientated genres. But, of course, Spire is not limited to that. Yet, probably a lot of people buying soundsets for it, will probably buy them for the mentioned genres.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
7227 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:31 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

chk071 wrote:Maybe it would be worth considering what market you want to cater your soundset too. I'm not sure what kind of musical genres would make good use of your presets. Don't take this offensively (it's not meant to be really), but, your sounds seem a bit "special", meaning that that's really stuff i have hardly heard before, and with which i have a bit of a problem of categorizing it. Maybe it would be really helpful to figure out what musical genres you are aiming for, before buying your synths. If you take a look at the soundsets for Spire in Reveal-Sound's store, for example, 90% will be for EDM orientated genres. But, of course, Spire is not limited to that. Yet, probably a lot of people buying soundsets for it, will probably buy them for the mentioned genres.


Well, it's all moot.

I went to the site to see if I could find some demos that aren't EDM when I saw it was on sale for $149.

So, I downloaded the demo to see if it worked in my DAW and loaded it up.

Gasp.

That GUI is a train wreck. It's too small as it is but with all that clutter, it's not something I want to work with. I tried making a preset and after about 10 minutes my eyes started bothering me and I lost interest.

I don't like the work flow AT ALL.

It's just not for me.

I might as well just lock this up but I'm sure there are probably a few people left who want to get their 2 cents in so I'll leave it open.

But you're right, the kind of sounds I do, this would probably be a disaster of a library just like Massive was.

Anyway, carry on.

Spire is officially dead and buried as far as my own desire is concerned.
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:37 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

Actually, i would even agree that the workflow is definitely something which could be improved in Spire. In terms of sound design, it's rather a synth, where you sit down, know what you want to do, and do it, while in other synths, i like to take Largo as an example, it invites you to experiment. That's definitely not the case for me in Spire, as i often feel a bit limited, when it comes to experimenting in it. I think that's testament to the fact that it has seen a steady progress in development. Definitely could be better laid out, and have some "smarter" design. Yet, it's a synth which can do a lot of stuff very well. And that's definitely something which lets me see past the not-so-great layout, and functionality.
egbert101
KVRian
 
802 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Postby egbert101; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:37 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

chk071 wrote:Maybe it would be worth considering what market you want to cater your soundset too. I'm not sure what kind of musical genres would make good use of your presets. Don't take this offensively (it's not meant to be really), but, your sounds seem a bit "special", meaning that that's really stuff i have hardly heard before, and with which i have a bit of a problem of categorizing it. Maybe it would be really helpful to figure out what musical genres you are aiming for, before buying your synths. If you take a look at the soundsets for Spire in Reveal-Sound's store, for example, 90% will be for EDM orientated genres. But, of course, Spire is not limited to that. Yet, probably a lot of people buying soundsets for it, will probably buy them for the mentioned genres.


I think wagtunes is a bit bored like me and wants a bit of a discussion :hihi: but he is exactly right, and so are you, that 90% of presets are going to be EDM orientated. These synths are all designed for EDM, inspired by Sylenth1 and Massive, but aren't pushing much beyond these.

EDM doesn't really interest me at all, that's not why I buy these synths, but what else is there? All that's left really, are emulation synths, like Diva, LuSH-101, The Legend, Oddity2, TAL-U-NO-LX, Repro-1 and on and on. Those are great, but are pushed so much into 'authenticity' that they are not so good as a general all purpose synth, or their CPU hit is too high. One or the other.

This is creating a bit of a saturation in the soft synth market, as I've pointed out before. You have your general synth, your more expensive rolls royce but overly complex synths (Zebra2, Omnisphere, Falcon, Reaktor, Serum) and then your emulations.
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fluffy_little_something
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8745 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:40 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

So, what is the point of this thread? 8)
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
7227 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:41 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

chk071 wrote:Actually, i would even agree that the workflow is definitely something which could be improved in Spire. In terms of sound design, it's rather a synth, where you sit down, know what you want to do, and do it, while in other synths, i like to take Largo as an example, it invites you to experiment. That's definitely not the case for me in Spire, as i often feel a bit limited, when it comes to experimenting in it. I think that's testament to the fact that it has seen a steady progress in development. Definitely could be better laid out, and have some "smarter" design. Yet, it's a synth which can do a lot of stuff very well. And that's definitely something which lets me see past the not-so-great layout, and functionality.


So I'm not crazy. That GUI really isn't all that great.

Okay, I thought maybe it was just me.
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:43 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

egbert101 wrote:
chk071 wrote:Maybe it would be worth considering what market you want to cater your soundset too. I'm not sure what kind of musical genres would make good use of your presets. Don't take this offensively (it's not meant to be really), but, your sounds seem a bit "special", meaning that that's really stuff i have hardly heard before, and with which i have a bit of a problem of categorizing it. Maybe it would be really helpful to figure out what musical genres you are aiming for, before buying your synths. If you take a look at the soundsets for Spire in Reveal-Sound's store, for example, 90% will be for EDM orientated genres. But, of course, Spire is not limited to that. Yet, probably a lot of people buying soundsets for it, will probably buy them for the mentioned genres.


I think wagtunes is a bit bored like me and wants a bit of a discussion :hihi: but he is exactly right, and so are you, that 90% of presets are going to be EDM orientated. These synths are all designed for EDM, inspired by Sylenth1 and Massive, but aren't pushing much beyond these.

Funnily, if you take a look at the first sound demos for Spire, it's 80ies cheese at its best. :D I think at least Spire wasn't catered to EDM producers from the beginning, but, it got sort of a sure-fire-success for those genres.
db3
KVRian
 
1313 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Postby db3; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:49 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

wagtunes wrote:That GUI is a train wreck. It's too small


Not sure I'd describe it as small :D
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-dthree-
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cryophonik
KVRAF
 
5258 posts since 6 Sep, 2006, from Elk Grove, CA

Postby cryophonik; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:50 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

Meh, sounds like you're not missing out on anything and are doing the right thing by saving your money. I also have three of those four synths, one of which is Spire and it gets the most use out of the three - I even love its UI). I don't feel that I'm missing out on anything by not having all four. The fourth one just simply doesn't appeal to me and that's really the only reason I need to not buy a synth.
chk071
KVRAF
 
11846 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:52 pm Re: The Spire Serum Dune 2 Massive Myopic Mess

FWIW, i do like Spire's GUI too, much. Still think it could be laid out better though. For example the mixup of envelopes and LFO's in the 2 bottom sections is sort of a no-go.
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