KVR Audio

Musical Gym · Post by **Musical Gym** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:47 pm

Sorry, I thought you meant VAT.

Ben H · Post by **Ben H** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 pm

Not one iota.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:57 pm

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:42 am

If anyone ever makes a rock solid reliable and less expensive controller, then I'll care about plugins supporting MPE. But wait, MPE isn't really a solid standard yet either.

Everything is going cheap, so I don't expect this market to flourish. I'm a little surprised it exists at all, since almost no one makes ribbon controllers (especially not integrated into keyboards like Kurzweil used to), and no one makes breath controllers anymore (my Akai wind controller is cool but I just want a basic CC device for hands free). When I see super expensive hardware (Haken) and slightly less expensive but buggy hardware (Seaboard), it just kind of feels like a tease.

I just hope that both of my Alesis 88-key synths don't die at the same time or I'll be out of channel AT, too. It's not poly, but it's better than not having it.

GeorgeZ · Post by **GeorgeZ** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:47 am

Definitely not. AT as is, is a bit of a weird beast to program for. Sometimes you hit a sweet spot with a patch that just begs for AT, and then it's brilliant, but that is a rare occurrence, imo. So, including even more possible sources of expression input... I don't think it'll be used extensively (or at all) by most (apart from Jordan Rudess, of course, he'll make it look easy

).

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:04 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:If anyone ever makes a rock solid reliable and less expensive controller, then I'll care about plugins supporting MPE. But wait, MPE isn't really a solid standard yet either.

It's getting there... I think there are plenty of people that want to play an instrument. And many people buy a guitar that costs a similar price to a Rise.

Plus Marco Parisi has sold a helluva lot of Rise Controllers!!

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:17 am

Currently my main controller is my 23" Multi-touch monitor using Xotopad
http://feelyoursound.com/xotopad/
Which is not MPE capable.
Since the multi-touch monitor has no velocity sensing I do not know
if there is a benefit to add MPE to XotoPad.

Check out my studio:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=6718002#p6718002

Dillinger · Post by **Dillinger** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:31 am

A Paradigm shift in input methods would be welcomed. The piano, the guitar are themselves expressive but when reduced to on-off switches become...unexpressed.

A new thinking is what's needed. An input method where the most basic patch can be played with emotion expressively; Instead of relying on the patch design for the feeling, we rely on the instruments input methods.

I think expressive midi, "MPE" as a small group decided to call it, is a good start, but is (should) not be its final form.

superscan · Post by **superscan** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:43 am

When I first purchased the Roli Rise and was learning about MPE, yes. A week later and realizing that I really needed to improve my piano chops to really play the Roli to use MPE, no. My go to synths had support, but it would have changed my workflow. For example, Omnisphere has it, requires using a singular patch as a multi. Don't get me wrong, it worked fine, I just leverage the multi differently and in the end, my piano skills weren't enough to justify the complexity. I also didn't want to learn another instrument. Which is what the Roli and MPE were really doing for me, adding more expression to your playing wasn't worth the investment. The Roli was built like a tank, i wanted to love it, but it was the first keyboard I ever returned. MPE in its current form has lots of promise, just not enough for me to stay invested.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:57 pm

After having a linnstrument for some time (before it died) I have to say even though it wasn't everything I'd dreamed it would be it was still far superior to anything that I had experienced prior.

Here's the thing about mpe. Roger Linn would have you believe the only way to truely experience it is on a Mac using Logic. The truth is if you assign multiple channels to the same plugin in any daw you can also experience the power of note independent aftertouch. (MPE)

That said there is still plenty of room to grow in this area. Especially for the moderately priced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OgzMqlzTfs

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Nah.

If I get any sort of nonstandard controller it's going to be something like a trautonium or ribbon for my CV-ready synths.

For the kind of noodling I do that goes into composition, mini keys with no aftertouch, plus a good set of finger drum pads, are fine.

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:16 pm

For me MPE controllers have another pro. That is that i simply can use several different tools/synths/instruments and trigger these from one controller. So that i can use one per voice.
Maybe there are already software solutions for this to do this with a "normal" controller like a midi splitter MIDI FX etc. but i like the easy plug n´play.
I think no MPE controller is perfect and each has it´s own pro and contra. MPE tools on my touch screens offer things i can´t do with any of those hardware controllers and vice versa
I tested a few of these (not all for sure) and the Rise is the closest (even if it has it flaws) for me to please me today. I also like it these days as normal controller much more than my "hard keys" when i use it in single channel mode. The tactile feedback is great for me the velocity response is great too. It comes also with some good software synths, it´s build like a tank and some other great things, so the price is not over the top for the whole package.
In most modern DAW´s it´s easy to set up also non MPE synths for these controllers. But then you need for each voice an own instance which might tax cpu and RAM.
It really still affect my thinking about buying a new tool but it is not a must i would say at the end.
It´s more the DAW which should support it proper (Logic does a great job here for me).
In general i think MPE synths might have a bigger future on multi-touch devices where you play that on screen and the tools are made for MPE at the core, especially in the iOS world.
But also there it is no must but i hit the buy button faster if they offer it.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:43 pm

No at all.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:25 pm

It definitely is a consideration to me. I believe that the Roli keyboards (lumpboards?) are pretty nearly the most perfect controllers for synthetic instruments that have ever been created. Others might be better, but come in at too high a price.

Coming from the world of guitar, you've got few options if you want synth sounds. GR style hex pickups have too many issues, IMO. Too limited. Prone to glitches. Standard keyboards can be OK, but as a guitarist, it just feels simple and clumsy. The first time I touched the Rise 49 was like magic. I literally laughed. Go out and buy one right now. I don't care if you're broke. JUSTDOIT.

You're always going to have your piano trained keyboardists or MPC/x0x button pressers, who don't give a sh!t. I get that. But, I think we're also seeing a backlash to that paradigm and I wouldn't be surprised if developers start coming on board with more MPE compatibility.

srcodling · Post by **srcodling** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:44 pm

It will affect my choices, yes. I got my Roli 25 and while I agree with and understand many of the criticisms, it has opened up a whole new world of expressiveness to me. That being said, I almost always use it monophonically because of how it deals with midi (e.g. the previous comment about Omnisphere), but it's the single note lines I wanted more expression for anyway. And then I just layer them.

So yes, I love my Roli and so MPE is definitely a consideration going forward for me.

Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?