Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

[Restless]

I'm just curious if Rise users have a problem that has stopped me from buying one. When I try to slide my fingers the fabric just bunches up under my fingertip. I have a really hard time getting to drag. That's basically the issue that is holding me back ... not MPE. I've watched tons of people play them and it doesn't look like they have the problem, but each time I've tried one it is a problem for me. I do have guitar calluses, including right hand tapping calluses. But nothing extraordinary.

And no ... I did not coat my hands with peanutbutter

You're probably using too much force. It takes some time getting used to it.

[Lotuzia]

bla bla

Second - He was suggesting mapping both vibrato depth and speed to AT, and suggested that that is what everyone would want to do anyway... which is not so. I often want to control them separately and I am sure plenty of other people do too.

I never said, or suggested that. Quite the opposite, I described and explained honnestly the differences.

Ok I'm done talking with people who can barely read what I actually write. Good luck to all fanboys and supremacists in this world, and forum. May they live a long time, ignore me, and carry on beeing so satisfied and full of themselves with their toys (without them life and music are just impossible, we all know that) and so comtemptuous with those who love all toys, and different ones than theirs. You did not change. i'm afraid I did not either. Back to the ignore list

[Cinebient]

I'm just curious if Rise users have a problem that has stopped me from buying one. When I try to slide my fingers the fabric just bunches up under my fingertip. I have a really hard time getting to drag. That's basically the issue that is holding me back ... not MPE. I've watched tons of people play them and it doesn't look like they have the problem, but each time I've tried one it is a problem for me. I do have guitar calluses, including right hand tapping calluses. But nothing extraordinary.

And no ... I did not coat my hands with peanutbutter

You're probably using too much force. It takes some time getting used to it.

Yes. I still have this "problem" sometimes too.
This works on a flat and hard surface better. Adding pressure, slide and glide at the same time is limited for the price of a much better tactile feedback.
Too much pressure while moving your finger can be tricky here. Especially diagonal slides (X,Y and Z at the same time works better on my tiny iPhone with 3D touch and MPE tools....but of course it's not the same).
But once you get used to it, it feels much better.
I like that i really can hammer this thing....an iPad would break.
There are many ways to use MPE these days.
I'm NO Rise fanboy but it combine the best of all these things for me with some little flaws.

[Cinebient]

bla bla

Second - He was suggesting mapping both vibrato depth and speed to AT, and suggested that that is what everyone would want to do anyway... which is not so. I often want to control them separately and I am sure plenty of other people do too.

I never said, or suggested that. Quite the opposite, I described and explained honnestly the differences.

Ok I'm done talking with people who can barely read what I actually write. Good luck to all fanboys and supremacists in this world, and forum. May they live a long time, ignore me, and carry on beeing so satisfied and full of themselves with their toys (without them life and music are just impossible, we all know that) and so comtemptuous with those who love all toys, and different ones than theirs. You did not change. i'm afraid I did not either. Back to the ignore list

But don't ignore that your suggestions doesn't work polyphonic!
All is fine and everyone should be happy with their workflow!
The world is big enough for that.
"Toys"? Whatever.....
I agree with many of your things but we are talking about MPE here!!!

[SJ_Digriz]

You're probably using too much force. It takes some time getting used to it.

Uhm .. .how do you use too much force? It's simply a velocity to loudness thing. I mean if I've tried just going with 1 finger as light as I could get a note to come on.

[Cinebient]

You're probably using too much force. It takes some time getting used to it.

Uhm .. .how do you use too much force? It's simply a velocity to loudness thing. I mean if I've tried just going with 1 finger as light as I could get a note to come on.

And that was still too much pressure?
Maybe you are to strong
It's also a matter of technic.
F.e. slides with more "amount" of your finger works better for me so that the pressure isn't all on a small point. This can also make a different in smooth or not so smooth pitch bending etc.

[deastman]

You're probably using too much force. It takes some time getting used to it.

Uhm .. .how do you use too much force? It's simply a velocity to loudness thing. I mean if I've tried just going with 1 finger as light as I could get a note to come on.

And that was still too much pressure?
Maybe you are to strong
It's also a matter of technic.
F.e. slides with more "amount" of your finger works better for me so that the pressure isn't all on a small point. This can also make a different in smooth or not so smooth pitch bending etc.

That sums it up pretty well. I can't deny that the bunching up of material is a bit of a shortcoming for the instrument, but it isn't insurmountable. You just need to work on your technique, figuring out the amount of pressure and the angle with which you push and slide to avoid that problem. For me, sliding up tends to bunch more than pulling back, which implies that it has as much to do about the angle of movement as it does the pressure itself. Or to put it another way, the vector of motion is important. Like any instrument, you need to practice to develop your technique, incorporating both the strengths and weaknesses of the device into your methodology.

[Ah_Dziz]

While I appreciate people adding specific support for MPE in their software, the seaboard is still just transmitting standard midi messages. It can be used with anything that uses midi to some extent or the other. It's a useful excercise in more complex routing to set up stuff that isnt designed to use MPE to use it. Which is why I don't particularly care if developers go out of their way to add the direct support of MPE. Even without screwing around with multi channel operation, I still have a dope controller with poly aftertouch and extremely sensitive "keys" that support velocity off as well as on. And that's just in single channel mode.

[Jace-BeOS]

Huh. I didn't even know the Rise had the potential for the material to bunch up. Sigh. I really wish I could try one in person somewhere.

[himalaya]

I'm just curious if Rise users have a problem that has stopped me from buying one. When I try to slide my fingers the fabric just bunches up under my fingertip. I have a really hard time getting to drag.

The right technique is very important here.
The erroneous thing most newcomers to the Seaboard RISE tend to do when they use slide is this:
They trigger the sound (note-on) and then they push up along the keywave with the finger tip. In addition, there will be some force applied to the keywave as they push up. The two problems are:

- the finger tip
- too much pressure applied

Both of those can affect how the silicone will perform.

What you need to practice - for an effective, smooth slide gesture - is this:

1. As soon as you trigger the note (at this point it will be the finger tip), flatten the finger on the silicon, so that the glide is almost performed with a totally flat finger, resting on the silicone.

2. the above needs to be accompanied by less force (less pressure).

If you get the two points above right, the silicon will not 'bunch up' and the slide gesture will be as smooth and easy as sliding your finger on melted butter.

The same applies when you want effective glide (pitch bend) technique.

So, with sliding and gliding always think about flattening your finger and using less force (less pressure). This is crucial and it works 100%.

Anyone in London can always go to ROLI HQ and try all Seaboards there. Call them.

[thetechnobear]

So, with sliding and gliding always think about flattening your finger and using less force (less pressure). This is crucial and it works 100%.

playing with more surface area of you finger seems ok, but using less force? that seems flawed...
what if you want to slide whilst increase pressure at the same time?
e.g. Z =volume, Y - filter freq, so you want to increase volume and make it brighter at the same time.
the point of these controllers is to allow simultaneous control of 3 axis

id assume the way around this is to turn up the sensitivity of Z, so you play with a light touch, something that's encouraged anyway... this will work well, if most of the resolution in Z is in the first few millimeters of travel

[himalaya]

It's about using the right amount of force when sliding and gliding. What I have observed is that most people use way too much force initially. So if your mission is to perfect the slide and glide gestures, definitely practice with less pressure force. Then, once you have this nailed, try adding pressure, but you will do so, with the right finger position on the surface, and thus, you will be able to get a smooth slide and goo pressure modualtion. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[thetechnobear]

seems reasonable, with the other expressive surfaces, using a light touch is also preferable, even though the surfaces don't bunch up, you still create more friction if you use too much force, which makes it harder to slide 'evenly'.
p.s. what I did initially to practice, is turn the gain up on the synths I was controlling and also the velocity turn up, this made me naturally back off - once I got used to it, I could reset it - and I found I had more dynamic range to play with.

[himalaya]

Using 'light touch' on the Seaboard RISE is actually the key to successful expression.
The main issue is that velocity and pressure on the RISE is intertwined. In fact, the continuous-pressure design on the Seaboard RISE (and GRAND) can behave like velocity, so if a patch is designed with no velocity but good pressure modulation, then the pressure modulation will act as velocity (not in a technical term, but it will feel like it).

So speaking of this 'light touch' approach imagine this:
If you play with high velocity, and strike the keywave hard, you get a high velocity value and a high pressure value. So the problem now is, you won't be able to get pressure modulation since you have already reach its maximum value (with the hard key press/strike). A light initial velocity touch, will allow you to 'sink' in into the silicone surface and explore the continuous-pressure. The Seaboards require a more gentle approach.

People are used to playing normal keyboards with high dynamic gestures, strong velocity, all of which is fine on a normal midi keyboard. However, when this forceful style of playing is applied to continuous-pressure designs like seen in the RISE without awareness, it creates problems where affective pressure modualtion can not be obtained.