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egbert101
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946 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Postby egbert101; Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:15 am Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Five software emulations of the Moog Model D are all compared with a real Moog Model D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1h07ws--CM

NOTE: video created and tests done by Starsky Carr (not me :hihi:)
Last edited by egbert101 on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ingonator
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11344 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:24 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

I had owned a real Minimoog ages ago and used and/or owned all Minimoog emulations including a Creamware Minimaax ASB (hardware DSP based). I currently own all plugins mentioned in the video except Minimonsta but i owned this ages ago. Diva could do a LOT more than the Minimoog modules including mixing Minimoog modules with those from otehr synths so it is quite special along those plugins.

Synapse Audio The Legend is by far the best for me so far. I also like the advanced features like e.g. polyphony, unison, 12dB LPF and Bandpass filters. I am also happy that The Lgend has full ADSR enveloeps opposing to the original ADS or ADSD envelopes. You could easily emulate the minimoog ADS envelopes with the ADSR in The Legend but not the other way around.

I also got e.g. NI Monark (as part of Komplete 10) and Arturia Mini V3 (as part of V-Collection 5) but rarely use them except for comparison reasons.

What some people prefer i certion Minimoog emulation beyond The Legend does not always have to be due to being a better emulation but due to personal preferences.

Anyway as i was involved with the beta testing and Factry presets design for The Legend you could call me "biased" if you like.
Last edited by Ingonator on Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
AnX
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1910 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Postby AnX; Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:25 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Interesting. For me its

Legend
MiniMonsta
Diva (as a whole, not a MM emu)

Wouldnt touch the other two.
Chemik
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150 posts since 18 Mar, 2003, from Jacksonville, FL

Postby Chemik; Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:51 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

One of the best side by side vids I've watched. Poor Arturia, not even close. Legend shined consistently simply no argument. Might need to rethink a purchase on that one.
Even I was offended by what I was going to put here.

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chk071
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13257 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:52 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Nice comparison, with lots of detail. I always had a feeling, also from statements of others who own the real thing, that Monark was modelled on kind of a weird model, with lots of distortion in the signal path. Because that's where it really differs to other emus really, and that's probably also what is described as "crunchiness" in the video. Legend definitely sounds closer to the model shown in the video indeed.
It's not "news" anymore, it's "infotainment".
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Laguna Rising
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6689 posts since 4 Apr, 2005, from here and there

Postby Laguna Rising; Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:02 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

That's interesting.
I can see The Legend shining, but MiniMonsta isn't bad after all...
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Ingonator
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11344 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:14 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

chk071 wrote:Nice comparison, with lots of detail. I always had a feeling, also from statements of others who own the real thing, that Monark was modelled on kind of a weird model, with lots of distortion in the signal path. Because that's where it really differs to other emus really, and that's probably also what is described as "crunchiness" in the video. Legend definitely sounds closer to the model shown in the video indeed.


Actually for The Legend two different Minimoog revisons were used (both Model D's provided by BigTone) which are available from the "Model Revision" switch at the back panel.
The difference of revisions is not easy to notice all patches but in several cases the difference is easy to notice.

With several controls at the back panel the Osc behavior and the filter, resonance and mod amount ranges could be adjusted further to go beyond the original setting or to match The Legend further to a certain hardware unit.
The "saturation" knob at the back panel (in the upper right) could make a difference too, same for the Drive and Feedback knobs at the main GUI.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
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fmr
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6052 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:33 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Laguna Rising wrote:That's interesting.
I can see The Legend shining, but MiniMonsta isn't bad after all...

I think what we can extract from here is that none of them is bad, after all. All have their strenghts and weaknesses. The older ones show some more weknesses than the newer ones, which is not surprising, but overall they didn't behave that bad (particularly Minimonsta, which hasn't been updated for ages).

Besides, one has to keep in mind that Model Ds were in production for many yeays, and there can be significant differences from unit to unit. Ingo already mentioned how the two units analyzed for the Legend were different. Anyway, I think we all can be glad that we have so many and so good choices.

I just wish we could say the same for every old synth - some don't even have one to show :(

Congrats to the author of the video. Very well done. :tu:
Fernando (FMR)
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Urs
u-he
 
21044 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:54 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Hehehe, all our reference synths had filter close at about 20kHz. It would have been wrong to model it any differently in Diva...

(I agree though, it was an oversight to use Osc1 for FM and not have it fine tuneable...)
Reefius
KVRist
 
277 posts since 7 Dec, 2013, from Belgium

Postby Reefius; Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:16 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Just purchased The Legend after watching this video :lol: I love this synth! :hyper: :tu:
egbert101
KVRian
 
946 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Postby egbert101; Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:23 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Reefius wrote:Just purchased The Legend after watching this video :lol: I love this synth! :hyper: :tu:


I'll be buying The Legend when it goes on sale. :hihi:
chk071
KVRAF
 
13257 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:29 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

egbert101 wrote:
Reefius wrote:Just purchased The Legend after watching this video :lol: I love this synth! :hyper: :tu:


I'll be buying The Legend when it goes on sale. :hihi:

There may be a big rack extension sale for Reason in may, Legend might go on sale then too (not sure), and you get the VST version for free, if you buy the rack extension, if i'm not mistaken. Might grab it then too.
It's not "news" anymore, it's "infotainment".
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Ingonator
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11344 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:05 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Reefius wrote:Just purchased The Legend after watching this video :lol: I love this synth! :hyper: :tu:


You could have look at my free patches collection here (and free patches from a few others):
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2#p6695162

More patches will hopefully follow in the future. A bunch of my patchces is also already part of the fatory content.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
egbert101
KVRian
 
946 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Postby egbert101; Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:09 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

Just to put some things into perspective: A brand new real Moog Model D (Reissued) would cost you $3,499 from Sweetwater. And The Legends costs $99.00. :hihi:

Sure, I would love to have real hardware synthesizers and a full home studio, but such luxuries are beyond my budget. But with software synthesizers, we're getting extremely close, sometimes to the point of not telling the difference, that realistically speaking, they are preferrable in most situations in home music production anyway.

The above tests are both objective and subjective, and the best I've seen so far that really exposes the strengths and weaknesses of the current market for Model D emulations. Still plenty of room for improvement (let us hope GForce brings out MiniMonsta 2) and let us also hope Synapse Audio and u-he don't stop improving and refining their emulations.

I think we are so lucky to be able to put our sticky fingers on so many emulations at such a low price in comparison to the real thing. :hihi: I am hoping that more emulations keep coming.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MinimoogD
http://www.synapse-audio.com/shop.html
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11344 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:49 am Re: Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

egbert101 wrote:The above tests are both objective and subjective, and the best I've seen so far that really exposes the strengths and weaknesses of the current market for Model D emulations. Still plenty of room for improvement (let us hope GForce brings out MiniMonsta 2) and let us also hope Synapse Audio and u-he don't stop improving and refining their emulations.


What exactly do you mean with "plenty of room for imrovement"? Compared to the original synth or is this based on adding more advanced features?

The Legend already nails the vintage Minimoog Model D as close as possible (actually two versions of the orignal synth) and also has some advanced features where you could go far beyond the original synth (latset addition is e.g. the Bandpass filter modes based on the original Minimoog ladder filter topology).

BTW the also the ability to save and load presets is a feature not included with both the original Model D and the new Model D Reissue. I consider this a major improvements compared to the original synths, same about the full ADSR envelopes in The Legend (compared to the ADS envelopes in the real thing).
Also the modulation amount that is set by the Modwheel in the plugin could be saved for each patch.

Compared to the Model D re-issue it might miss a dedicated LFO module. Velocity and aftertouch support was already added to The Legend with the last update (and MIDI Learn already last year).
This might be added with a future update and if like me you got Live 9 Suite with Max 4 Live or Bitwig Studio you could already add LFOs and other stuff with those to automatable parameters.
With Max 4 Live (M4L plugins included in Live 9 Suite) i could add e.g. multiple LFOs and envelope modules and also a step sequencer. Adding an Arpeggiator is possible too.

With the free "Polymind" Max 4 Live device i could also create a polyphonic synth from multiple instances of a monophonic synth. I had used this to crete a polyphonic U-He Repro-1 or The Legend with polyphonic Unison (with Unison the plugin is monophonic). I also added random LFOs to the pitch to get some slight random detuning that is typical for dedicated polysynths and which is also included in The Legend with the Poly mode (which is more than just using 4 mono voices).
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
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