Fathom Synth Development Thread

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Fathom Synth

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Vertion wrote:Feature Requests (speed up sound design):
- Randomize/Mutate Button - Create a new patch/preset by weaving together complete random combinations.
- Next/Previous Buttons - Select the next/prior preset in a list.
+1

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Ok, I solved my issue with the osc leaking through the filter...I wasnt paying
attention to the key! trackingg onbth filter.. I set that to zero and things act as you would expect. The filter envelope cuts out the osc volume 100 %. No need for master ADSR..

As for the clicking. I experiened alot tonight using reasonably short envelopes with iinstant attack and the last point on the envelope on zero. It seemed to be less attack related .and more that last point being on zero. At .one point it was on every key release but then became less conistant but dissappeared when lifting that point up a little.

I believe the audio drop out is Reaper or my system related as it happened to another vst tonight.

I am experiencing a wierd cpu behavior. If I stop pressing keys, after about 3 seconds the cpu jumps from 3 to 18 and stays there unill I press another key. This is consistant 100% of the time.

I was really impressed with the filter/envelope responsiveness once I figured out what I was doing. Especially when using the overdrive on the osc.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
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https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:I loaded up a fresh instance of mono Fathom, added a basic waveform osc and a filter. Played around on some keys. There were clicks related to key press and release. on nearly every one.

This is due to instant attack and no release......Because, I havent set up a volume envelope yet.
I also tried that now, an Oscillator plus second order lowpass filter, but still no clicks like the audiofile Everett posted.
What CPU, host and soundcard + settings are you using? Can't seem to reproduce it, even when I lower the buffersize some more. :neutral:

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FathomSynth wrote:SM, I think I know what you are saying. That is exactly why you will notice the partials dial
goes down to zero instead of one, so that when you modulate it you get a nice clean
envelope all the way down to "nothing", just like a filter.

But to answer your question, currently Fathom does not have a master ADSR which
everything goes through. I know it might be convenient but I've tried to avoid that sort
of thing to make it more versatile in the long run. I personally don't like built in ADSR's
and would prefer to specifically assign the same ADSR to, for instance, both the master
volume and filter frequency, if that's what I want to do. I admit its more work, but
then if you only want an ADSR on one thing and not the other you can do so.

TIMT, Hi, yes several people have noted that problem. The basic waveforms oscillator
really needs 128 partials not 64. That way you can put the partials all the way up to 128
and set Partials Max to around 10K, and then your low notes would have 128 partials
and the higher notes would still keep the partials under the alias limit. Sorry I have not
done that yet, but I'm planning on doing all the oscillator changes at once, which will be
the next release 1.0.11.

Its ironic, both these issues sort of go back to the same idea. We are all use to most synthesizers
doing a lot of this stuff for us automatically, so using Fathom can take some getting use to
since it does nothing automatically, you have to always tell it exactly what you want it to do.
I programmed it that way intentionally since I got frustrated with "toy" synthesizers
that provided no way to access what is going on inside under the hood.
Aah ok.so it's a bit like Harmor in that regard.i love the level of control.being able to apply phase distortion to the waveform itself is genius and something i have been looking for for a while.i've been doing this via a very convoluted way of using PM to get very dramatic phase cancellation over time (when automated),but is limited to only manipulating the slope and not the whole geometry of the waveform(still a lot better than generic uses of PM/FM though :D)consider me another customer when that version rolls out :tu:
I

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RPH wrote: I also tried that now, an Oscillator plus second order lowpass filter, but still no clicks like the audiofile Everett posted.
What CPU, host and soundcard + settings are you using? Can't seem to reproduce it, even when I lower the buffersize some more. :neutral:
I am usong a Dell laptop 2.6 dual core, Win 7 64, Reaper 5.4 64, using onboard sound card, Asio4all V2 set at 256.

I listened to the file again. It could be buffer related. Its hard to say because they are also playing staccato pretty quickly. It sounds very similar to what I hear with a zero release or better stated zero sustain. I will try and put togetter a guick video demonstrating what I am seeing/hearing.

You dont hear any click while playing 16ths at 100 bpm with no envelope or the default envelope setting, using the simple set up above?
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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TIMT, Thanks for your comments.

Thanks everyone for helping and testing.

I will be testing it myself with mono on Reaper soon. If I have to I will add some special code for Reaper just like I did for CuBase and FL Studio.

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I haven't used Asio4all ( crashes too often imo ), but the Asio driver with my interface ( buffer 256 samples ) and to record the vid I used DirectSound ( 1024 samples ).

Check vid, it's in Reaper with 16th notes at 120BPM, no Envelope ( right-mouse and save-as ): http://rhmodules.nl/temp/fathom-clicktest.mp4

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I’ve been having a conversation with one of our users about the Fathom sawtooth, so I thought I’d post the results of our research here for everyone.

I have Reaper so I loaded up the Reaper project and also listened to the flac file in Audacity.

I'm not hearing any obvious problems in any of the tracks. I admit each SAW sounds a bit different, but it is normal for different synth Saw waveforms to sound different because they use different methods to create them and also they can balance the partials differently.

Also some synths use a BLIT function to generate the saw instead of pure sin partials which produces slight aliasing which will make the sound sharper and create more energy in the very high spectrum.

Fathom uses only sin Partials and it is very clean which means there is absolutely no high frequency content after the last partial. So the Fathom frequency spectrum will drop immediately to zero after the last partial number 128 or Partial 64 for the basic waveforms.

A synth like Spire will gradually taper off into the very high frequencies, instead of dropping suddenly like Fathom, Omnisphere or Sylenth1. There are two ways Spire is doing this. One is to have more than 128 partials and change the number of partials per midi note to avoid aliasing. Or they are simply using an aliased waveform and filtering it internally. At any rate, some people actually prefer this sound, since it sounds brighter.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The audio file you sent sounds exactly as it should.

(1) The first saw is the Fathom basic waveforms. This sounds the least sharp because it only has 64 partials. This will be fixed in release 1.0.11 when I will bump the partials to 128.

(2) The second saw is the Fathom Analog saw. This sounds very bright since it has 128 partials. But there is no special balancing in the partials, the frequency spectrum is straight since it uses the text book amount for each partial.

(3) The third saw (not Fathom) sounds like it also has 128 partials and almost the exact same brightness except that it sounds like they balanced the partials a little higher in the upper partials.

(4) The fourth saw sounds like it has slightly less than 128 partials and they balanced the partials higher in the lower end instead of the upper end.

(5) I have to admit I like the last saw the best. It also sounds like it has 128 partials but they have balanced the partials non-linearly to create a more aggressive tone without it sounding too heavy in either the low or high end.

The best saw tooth I have ever heard is Sylenth. They also have a band limited saw created from partials except the partials gradually taper off into the upper frequencies creating a sharp but very balanced tone.

You can get very close to this saw tooth in Fathom by selecting the Analog Saw, going to the Parameters page, and dialing the Spectrum dial down to 0.50, which will keep all the partials for a sharp sound but balance the higher partials down a bit.

This conversation has made me realize that the difference in opinion on how the perfect Saw should sound could easily be addressed by adding the additive spectrum window to all the Fathom waveform types, that way you could fine tune every waveform, even the ones you draw.

I will try to add this in 1.0.11.

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RPH wrote:I haven't used Asio4all ( crashes too often imo ), but the Asio driver with my interface ( buffer 256 samples ) and to record the vid I used DirectSound ( 1024 samples ).

Check vid, it's in Reaper with 16th notes at 120BPM, no Envelope ( right-mouse and save-as ): http://rhmodules.nl/temp/fathom-clicktest.mp4
Nice video,

Today I did the same set up as above and found no clicks. Last night I was working with filters and envelopes. I started hearing clicks similar to what we have been talking about for a few days now. So I backed up a little bit and started over.

Open Fathom mono
One Basic waveform osc followed by 2nd order low pass
NO CliCKS

Then I tried simply adjusting some filter parameters...

Same config as above with
filter freq ..200 hz
filter rez...2
1/4 note loop playing C3 at 100 bpm
Now I have consistant semingly random clicks.

I didnt try any envelopes yet. I wanted to confirm this first.

I attached a project file just to make sure things were the same. Can you please try that file and let me know if you hear the clicking.

It has two instances of Fathom mono. One with default parameters and one with filter adjustments.

Thanks
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We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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OK, So I loaded up the Reaper project you just sent me (thanks!).

I ran it routing the Fathom VST through my debugger using both the polyphonic and mono builds,
and absolutely no clicks at all. I listened to both tracks in the Reaper project individually and
let the loop play many times, no clicks.

So I pointed Reaper to my release test folder and dropped in Fathom version 109
both the 64 and 32 bit versions. Then I re-scanned the plugin folder in Reaper
and replaced the tracks with Fathom version 109. I ran the loops several times,
still no clicking. I then loaded Fathom 109 32 bit and re-ran the test,
still absolutely no clicking at all. I tried adding a filter and playing with the knobs
but no difference.

I also tried adding more complex notes to the midi sequence, still no clicking.

I did not have any trouble running Fathom 32 on my Win 7 64 bit system.

I'm not just saying this to avoid fixing a bug, but I'm just not hearing any clicking.

Keep in mind I have 64 GB of RAM. While running your Reaper project with 3 instances of
Fathom I noticed my RAM usage was around 9 GB (including Visual Studio which I had open).

So if anyone is using a 32 bit machine with 4 GB of RAM that could definitely be a problem.

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SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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Wow, nice! I will include that preset in the next release.

If you add a bass line and some extra Fathom tracks I'll post the song on the web site.

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FathomSynth wrote:Wow, nice! I will include that preset in the next release.

If you add a bass line and some extra Fathom tracks I'll post the song on the web site.
Thank you! :-)

Ok, I will to work on the song and update it within the next 24 hours as the plan goes.

I would enjoy making an entire bank for Fathom. May I sell preset banks I make for Fathom as well?
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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Yes to both questions. If you make an entire bank I will include it in the release.
I rare cases I make tweak the sounds a bit.

You (or anyone) are also welcome to create Fathom sound banks and sell them on your own website,
and you do not have to pay a percentage to Seaweed Audio.

If you do sell a sound bank I recommend that the Fathom free version of your sound bank
include only a sampling sub-set of your presets so ppl are motivated to buy the full version.

You can also make arrangements to have your sound bank sold directly on Seaweed Audio
if you like, in that case we take 25% and your percentage is usually payed out through paypal monthly.
If you prefer we can just provide a direct external link to your sound bank sales and in
that case Seaweed Audio does not take a percentage.

I'm most interested in complete songs since I want to add to the Artist page.
At some point when I get time I may have a song contest with some sort of significant reward.

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