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Cinebient
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2604 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Piracy might also be a much bigger problem in the desktop world.
As much as i love some desktop plug-ins and personal offers from developers it´s so much more easy to install, delete and organize stuff via one single account on my iOS devices.
Beside musicians which make a living and need all that pro stuff i think iOS will grow more and more on hobbyists.
A lot things there are more easy to do and while a desktop OS has a lot advanced options it can be bloated and unneeded at the same time.
Armagibbon
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464 posts since 20 Apr, 2017

Postby Armagibbon; Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:50 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:iPAD Pro now is as powerful, if not more powerful, than a regular desktop computer 5 years ago.

An ARM-something clocked at 2.2GHz is faster than a 5yo desktop?

You're a funny guy!
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Numanoid
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25999 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:00 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Armagibbon wrote:
Numanoid wrote:iPAD Pro now is as powerful, if not more powerful, than a regular desktop computer 5 years ago.

An ARM-something clocked at 2.2GHz is faster than a 5yo desktop?

You're a funny guy!

A quick google brings this info, what so funny about that?

"Benchmarks put iPad Pro’s A9X chip roughly on par with Intel’s 2013 Core i5"

https://www.google.no/search?q=2.26+GHz ... o+intel+i5
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
Armagibbon wrote:
Numanoid wrote:iPAD Pro now is as powerful, if not more powerful, than a regular desktop computer 5 years ago.

An ARM-something clocked at 2.2GHz is faster than a 5yo desktop?

You're a funny guy!

A quick google brings this info, what so funny about that?

"Benchmarks put iPad Pro’s A9X chip roughly on par with Intel’s 2013 Core i5"

https://www.google.no/search?q=2.26+GHz ... o+intel+i5

The only specs I see are with Mac Books and Surfaces. I don't see any benchmarks with desktop computers running fully powered CPUs.

OTOH, some articles published I read don't show things so brightly:

https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/2218 ... udge-match

https://www.maketecheasier.com/differen ... and-intel/

And it seems that Intel was losing battels only in the mobile wporld, which caused the company to simply give up on that market:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/3 ... cancelled/
Last edited by fmr on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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Numanoid
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25999 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:18 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

The only specs I see are with Mac Books and Surfaces. I don't see any benchmarks with desktop computers running fully powered CPUs.

Desktop computers vary a lot in performance, the bottom price end is less powerful than a top of the line MacBook
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:27 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
The only specs I see are with Mac Books and Surfaces. I don't see any benchmarks with desktop computers running fully powered CPUs.

Desktop computers vary a lot in performance, the bottom price end is less powerful than a top of the line MacBook

If you assemble a desktop with a Core M, then perhaps, but why would you? I am talking about "regular" desktops, those that run CPUs specifically conceived for desktop use. Othwerwise, your use of the word "desktop" is just misleading.

Anyway, the links I posted show that, even a Core M (which is a processor specifically built for laptops, concentrated more on low energy consumption than on high performance) performs better than A9 in certain tests, and overall, the Core M seems to still perform better: "The full suite of tests shows the A9X and Macbook each taking five tests, and our excerpt reflects this balance. The primary difference between the two platforms is that when the Intel CPUs win, they tend to win by much larger margins. Overall, the Core M still has an intrinsic performance advantage over its ARM-based rivals."

AND (and this is a BIG argument) a laptop running Windows in a Core M CPU will still do more, and cost way less than a iPad Pro.
Last edited by fmr on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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Numanoid
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25999 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:36 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

fmr wrote:If you assemble a desktop with a Core M, then perhaps, but why would you? I am talking about "regular" desktops, those that run CPUs specifically conceived for desktop use. Othwerwise, your use of the word "desktop" is just misleading.

If using your definition of desktop (from about 2012), compared to latest iPAD Pro. How much better would you estimate the desktop to perform?
AND (and this is a BIG argument) a laptop running a Core M will still do more, and cost way less than a iPad Pro.

But the audio plugs you use on it will not, and that is sort of the purpose of this thread, why those plugs are so much cheaper on iOS.
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:39 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote:If you assemble a desktop with a Core M, then perhaps, but why would you? I am talking about "regular" desktops, those that run CPUs specifically conceived for desktop use. Othwerwise, your use of the word "desktop" is just misleading.

If using your definition of desktop (from about 2012), compared to latest iPAD Pro. How much better would you estimate the desktop to perform?

Based on mine (Core i7 3770 @ 3.4 GHz) much better - I would dare to say that there is NO comparision possible.
Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote: AND (and this is a BIG argument) a laptop running a Core M will still do more, and cost way less than a iPad Pro.

But the audio plugs you use on it will not, and that is sort of the purpose of this thread, why those plugs are so much cheaper on iOS.

Which audio plug-ins? Did you perform some tests? I would like to know which of the plug-ins that are used in that ARM processor would not run on a Core M CPU, or would perform worse.
Last edited by fmr on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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SJ_Digriz
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5129 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:42 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

I'd quit composing and recording if I had to do it on an iPad.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
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Numanoid
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Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:43 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

fmr wrote:Based on mine (Core i7 3770 @ 3.4 GHz) much better

I would call that a top of the line desktop.

Regular desktops ran i3 5 years ago.
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Numanoid
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Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:44 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

fmr wrote:
Numanoid wrote:But the audio plugs you use on it will not, and that is sort of the purpose of this thread, why those plugs are so much cheaper on iOS.

Which audio plug-ins? Did you perform some tests? I would like to know which of the plug-ins that are used in that ARM processor would not run on a Core M CPU, or would perform worse.

To take one example Sunrizer on iOS costs 5-6 times less than the OSX/Win version:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sunrize ... 63267?mt=8

Why?
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:45 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote:Based on mine (Core i7 3770 @ 3.4 GHz) much better

I would call that a top of the line desktop.

Regular desktops ran i3 5 years ago.

It's a desktop from 2012. Basically anyone that would assemble a desktop for audio would choose an i7. It's NOT a top of the line, although it could be classified as an upper range class one. I could get a better one even then.

But even a quad-core desktop i5 CPU would easily kill the ARM A9 performance wise
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:50 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote:
Numanoid wrote:But the audio plugs you use on it will not, and that is sort of the purpose of this thread, why those plugs are so much cheaper on iOS.

Which audio plug-ins? Did you perform some tests? I would like to know which of the plug-ins that are used in that ARM processor would not run on a Core M CPU, or would perform worse.

To take one example Sunrizer on iOS costs 5-6 times less than the OSX/Win version:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sunrize ... 63267?mt=8

Why?

There's no reason I could think of... But that's not what we were discussing. We were discussing if yes or no a Core M equiped computer could run less or more instances of Sunrizer than an iPad Pro.
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Numanoid
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25999 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

fmr wrote:There's no reason I could think of... But that's not what we were discussing.

Hello? Have a look at the OP

It seems you just jumped in the middle of the discussion, without reading from the start :wink:
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fmr
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6422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:34 am Re: Why are computer VSTs/plugins so much more expensive than iPad apps?

Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote:There's no reason I could think of... But that's not what we were discussing.

Hello? Have a look at the OP

It seems you just jumped in the middle of the discussion, without reading from the start :wink:

I know what's the OP (it's the in thread subject after all :shrug.). But the late posts were about your statement that the iPad Pro could perform better than a 5 year old desktop...

Regarding the price, i think Sunrizer is a good example. The guy seems to have simply ported a synth that could be something amazing by iPad standards, but is just "another one" by Mac/Windows standards. Still, he priced it accordingly to the ones of Legend or similar. Why?

The only reason I can see is that because he thought that, since synths he feels are similar are priced like that, then he also could do that. It's just a matter of charging more just because he thinks he can.

I think the only thing we can do is vote with our wallet. For me, I haven't the slightest interest in just another subtractive synth, so, I really don't care what price he wants for it. I have plenty of things like Sunrizer.

The amazing thing is that he even didn't try to explain why he priced it the way he did. He just did it.
Fernando (FMR)
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