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Leee1102
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37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:27 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Here's a continuation of my previous post comparing Acoustic Samples B5, and other B3 emulators with Blue 3.
In my last post I was saying that I thought B5 was the worst of the lot, but I heard that version 2 was a great improvement over the first version that I have installed (but never use). Up until Blue3, VB-3 was my Hammond B3 emulator of choice.

So I finished downloading B5 version 2, and while it DOES sound better than the first version, it's still no where near as good as the others. This is my personal opinion, your mileage may vary.

It's funny though, the thing that sounds BEST is actually when I combine two of the Hammond emulators and play them together.
For example Blue3 and VB-3, or Blue3 and Acoustic Samples B5 v2. Together they create a much fuller tone than playing any single one of them by themselves. When playing two together, then mute one of them, you can definitely hear a major difference, like half the sound spectrum disappeared. Blue3 is definitely higher in tone, almost a bit too treble-y with not a lot of bass. Even after adjusting the EQ knobs. But when mixed with one of the other emulators, it's a full, fat sound. So maybe that's the answer to getting a really good tone.
Leee
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Fleer
KVRAF
 
3202 posts since 22 Aug, 2014, from Boston/Cambridge

Postby Fleer; Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:29 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Great write up :tu:
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SMH
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49 posts since 22 Feb, 2017

Postby SMH; Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:15 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:It's funny though, the thing that sounds BEST is actually when I combine two of the Hammond emulators and play them together.
For example Blue3 and VB-3, or Blue3 and Acoustic Samples B5 v2. Together they create a much fuller tone than playing any single one of them by themselves. When playing two together, then mute one of them, you can definitely hear a major difference, like half the sound spectrum disappeared. Blue3 is definitely higher in tone, almost a bit too treble-y with not a lot of bass. Even after adjusting the EQ knobs. But when mixed with one of the other emulators, it's a full, fat sound. So maybe that's the answer to getting a really good tone.


That's probably just due to the doubling. (Though I'd expect some phase interference problems.)

What might be more useful is running Blue3 through VB3's Leslie. I haven't gotten around to trying that yet but mean to.
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Leee1102
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37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:02 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

SMH wrote:
Leee1102 wrote:It's funny though, the thing that sounds BEST is actually when I combine two of the Hammond emulators and play them together.
For example Blue3 and VB-3, or Blue3 and Acoustic Samples B5 v2. Together they create a much fuller tone than playing any single one of them by themselves. When playing two together, then mute one of them, you can definitely hear a major difference, like half the sound spectrum disappeared. Blue3 is definitely higher in tone, almost a bit too treble-y with not a lot of bass. Even after adjusting the EQ knobs. But when mixed with one of the other emulators, it's a full, fat sound. So maybe that's the answer to getting a really good tone.


That's probably just due to the doubling. (Though I'd expect some phase interference problems.)

What might be more useful is running Blue3 through VB3's Leslie. I haven't gotten around to trying that yet but mean to.


No, it's more than just doubling, there is a distinct lack of bottom end (mud) in Blue3.
What's it called when you run your hand up the keyboard, and then hit a chord on a Hammond Organ? You get that unique kind of "fill" into, say, a chorus of a song. With Blue3 alone, that hand-run is almost completely overtaken by the other instruments. It's not until I add in one of the other emulators, such as AS B5 (which is very muddy), that adds the power to the "hand-run", and also gives the higher notes more beefy bass.

After adjusting some of the tone adjustments on Blue3, I can come close to what it sounds like with another Hammond B3 VSTi. Maybe some more tweaking is required, or maybe I can add an EQ to the Blue3 track. That might help too.

Also, IMHO, I think that the Blue3 rotary speaker emulator is the best of the bunch. It's very pronounced, and when playing with a full band, you can really hear when the speaker speeds up and slows down.
VB-3 is very close and is really good on it's own.
Last edited by Leee1102 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leee
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SMH
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49 posts since 22 Feb, 2017

Postby SMH; Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:07 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:What's it called when you run your hand up the keyboard, and then hit a chord on a Hammond Organ? You get that unique kind of "fill" into, say, a chorus of a song.

Gliss (glissando).
With Blue3 alone, that hand-run is almost completely overtaken by the other instruments. It's not until I add in one of the other emulators, such as AS B5 (which is very muddy), that adds the power to the "hand-run", and also gives the higher notes more beefy bass.

After adjusting some of the tone adjustments on Blue3, I can come close to what it sounds like with another Hammond B3 VSTi. Maybe some more tweaking is required, or maybe I can add an EQ to the Blue3 track. That might help too.


Again, you're probably hearing a change in EQ due to phase cancellation between the two instruments that (at least should be) in the exact same tune with each other. The problem is it (probably) won't be repeatable, you'll get a different combination with each playback/rendering as the instruments drift in and out of phase with each other and use different starting phases.

I can't say you're not getting a result you like from it, but it's not a very controllable way to go about it.
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Leee1102
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37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:15 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

SMH wrote:
Leee1102 wrote:What's it called when you run your hand up the keyboard, and then hit a chord on a Hammond Organ? You get that unique kind of "fill" into, say, a chorus of a song.

Gliss (glissando).
With Blue3 alone, that hand-run is almost completely overtaken by the other instruments. It's not until I add in one of the other emulators, such as AS B5 (which is very muddy), that adds the power to the "hand-run", and also gives the higher notes more beefy bass.

After adjusting some of the tone adjustments on Blue3, I can come close to what it sounds like with another Hammond B3 VSTi. Maybe some more tweaking is required, or maybe I can add an EQ to the Blue3 track. That might help too.


Again, you're probably hearing a change in EQ due to phase cancellation between the two instruments that (at least should be) in the exact same tune with each other. The problem is it (probably) won't be repeatable, you'll get a different combination with each playback/rendering as the instruments drift in and out of phase with each other and use different starting phases.

I can't say you're not getting a result you like from it, but it's not a very controllable way to go about it.



Yes, Gliss, thank you for the term. I like "hand run" myself :)
But that's a very distinct and important part of the whole Hammond B3 experience. In fact I often over use it.
But I know what you're saying about the two instruments being out of phase, especially concerning the rotary speakers. As of today, I've gotten to the point where I'm able to tweak the tone wheels to where it matches the tone settings of using two emulators together. This involves cranking up the lower end EQ knob all the way, and the mid-low to about 3/4 of the way. It brings out the Gliss and also adds some punch to the higher notes.
Leee
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SMH
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49 posts since 22 Feb, 2017

Postby SMH; Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:17 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Good point about the twin rotaries. That will avoid any phase cancellation as the phases of each are constantly "spinning" anyway. (And it's not uncommon even in reality to use more than one Leslie speaker at the same type, though typically with the same organ feeding both.)
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:23 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:After adjusting some of the tone adjustments on Blue3, I can come close to what it sounds like with another Hammond B3 VSTi. Maybe some more tweaking is required, or maybe I can add an EQ to the Blue3 track. That might help too.

For me the sound is perfectly balanced for studio production. Got the bite in highs to cut through and got the bottom but not too much for blending seemlessly with rest of the mix. It's interesting to read other people's live experience with it, I still ain't got any. In studio, I think most engeeners would try to eq any extra muddiness out of the sound anyway, and bring it in only where applicable.
Leee1102 wrote:Also, IMHO, I think that the Blue3 rotary speaker emulator is the best of the bunch...

Couldn't agree more! I'm endorsing it so much, feels like a real one :love:
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10164 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:05 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

The name is unfortunate, might cause some confusion with other plugins. And I don't even know why an organ plugin is called Blue, what's the point?
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Fleer
KVRAF
 
3202 posts since 22 Aug, 2014, from Boston/Cambridge

Postby Fleer; Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:39 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Have a look at the first thread pages.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10164 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:45 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Oh, sorry, had only skimmed through the last page...

Seems to be a pretty anonymous developer, no such info whatsoever on their site.
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Fleer
KVRAF
 
3202 posts since 22 Aug, 2014, from Boston/Cambridge

Postby Fleer; Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:54 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

I believe it's his first one, and if so, that's really unbelievable. Love that sound. But then again, love all things Hammond.
incubus
Banned

Postby incubus; Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:50 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

I had given up on ever getting anything like this in the virtual realm.
incubus
Banned

Postby incubus; Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:57 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

EDIT: Oops, 3 crashes in that short time, not good.

bitwig/doze here.
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Leee1102
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37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:14 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

incubus wrote:EDIT: Oops, 3 crashes in that short time, not good.

bitwig/doze here.


I've read several people say that the demo causes crashes (something to do with the trial inhibitor)
But some of those same users say after getting the actual paid plugin, there are no more crashes.

I don't know if that applies to you, but it might. I know I got a couple of crashes with the demo version, exactly when the trial inhibitor (silence/muting) kicks in.
Leee
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