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Fleer
KVRAF
 
3184 posts since 22 Aug, 2014, from Boston/Cambridge

Postby Fleer; Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:30 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Smooth sailing here (Bitwig/MainStage/Mac).
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Leee1102
KVRist
 
37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:51 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

As I've posted several times, I've been waffling back and forth between Blue3 and my "go-to" Hammond VSTi, GSi's VB-3.
And I've finally come to the conclusion that the inability for Blue3 to produce a decent "Gliss" sound (swiping your hand from the bottom to the top of the white keys) is a definite deal breaker for me. That low rumble-growl-climb into a big fat chord is one of the key signature sounds produced by a Hammond B3 organ.
And it's just not there with Blue3.

It's especially noticeable doing a side by side comparison with Blue3 and VB-3.
You can really hear the booming sub-sonic, growling low end of VB-3 when pressing down about 7 or 8 of the lowest white keys then hand-swiping (glissing) up the keyboard; while Blue3's low end volume and tone is so much weaker and not nearly as deep by comparison. It barely cuts through when playing it in a song.

I've tried cranking the Output's Low and Mid EQ knobs, as well as cranking up the bass and lows Tonewheel and Drawbar Levels. I even tried adding a Dynamic EQ to Blue3 track's output, with the bottom end of the EQ set really high. And yet STILL, doing all this the comparison with VB-3's low end growl doesn't come close.

GG-AUDIO, if you are reading this, perhaps this could be something that can be improved on in one of the next updates? It's just one selling point, but for me a very important one, since I use that gliss sound a lot on my Hammond organ parts. Thank you!
Leee
GG Audio
KVRer
 
13 posts since 3 Jan, 2017

Postby GG Audio; Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:04 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Hey Leee,

First off, thanks for checking out Blue3.

It's sound like you're enjoying it except for the low end issue. A couple of things...a real Hammond cannot create sub-sonic tones as-is. It just can't. Neither can a Leslie produce them. Blue3 was designed to be as realistic as possible to a real B3 after extensive measurements and testing.

But hey, you like what you like, right? I get it. I'm glad to see that you checked out other tonewheel sets and adjusted the EQ. You could also try adjusting the Balance control in the Microphones panel which will make a major change between the output of the horn and the bass rotors. Another factor is the Overdrive would can make an impact on perceived warmth and depth.

Sorry, but I'm away from my gear for a few days, but I'll definitely look into it further when I return.

Hope that helps. Thanks again.
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Leee1102
KVRist
 
37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:34 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

GG Audio wrote:Hey Leee,

First off, thanks for checking out Blue3.

It's sound like you're enjoying it except for the low end issue. A couple of things...a real Hammond cannot create sub-sonic tones as-is. It just can't. Neither can a Leslie produce them. Blue3 was designed to be as realistic as possible to a real B3 after extensive measurements and testing.

But hey, you like what you like, right? I get it. I'm glad to see that you checked out other tonewheel sets and adjusted the EQ. You could also try adjusting the Balance control in the Microphones panel which will make a major change between the output of the horn and the bass rotors. Another factor is the Overdrive would can make an impact on perceived warmth and depth.

Sorry, but I'm away from my gear for a few days, but I'll definitely look into it further when I return.

Hope that helps. Thanks again.


Thanks for your quick reply GG AUDIO.
My use of the term "sub-sonic" was more of an exaggerated description that an actual precise term.
The point I was trying to make clear is that when attempting to play a "gliss", hand-smear, from the bottom notes, Blue3 just doesn't cut through the other instruments in a song. And when doing a direct side-by-side comparison with GSi's VB-3 (and perhaps other Hammond emulators as well) you can hear a big difference in the lack of bottom end in Blue3.

But I'll try adjusting the Microphone balance and see if I can get more out of the bass rotors.
I've tried adjusting the overdrive (which sounds great btw) but unfortunately it doesn't add any bottom end in the sound spectrum.

Thanks again, and am looking forward to you examining this issue.
Leee
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:58 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Added four new organs from NI, Steinberg, Arturia and AIR Music Tech! The list is getting pretty comprehensive :D

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=488585


Fleer wrote:Smooth sailing here (Bitwig/MainStage/Mac).

Smooth as silk in Sonar.
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Leee1102
KVRist
 
37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:24 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

chris.r wrote:Added four new organs from NI, Steinberg, Arturia and AIR Music Tech! The list is getting pretty comprehensive :D

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=488585


Fleer wrote:Smooth sailing here (Bitwig/MainStage/Mac).

Smooth as silk in Sonar.



Chris, it seems like we've done comparisons using many of the same Hammond plugins.
But where I wrote my own conclusions, you recorded the differences and left the listeners to decide for themselves. Although I'm interested in some of YOUR opinions, especially since you obviously put a lot of work in doing the side by side comparisons.

As I have written in several previous posts, I think the Blue3 has a much brighter tone in general compared to my other favorite, GSi's VB-3, but lacks the beefy bottom end that is found in the VB-3 and other plugins. I'm wondering if you agree with that assessment?

I know I might sound like I'm trying to knock the Blue3, but I really do like this new plugin, it's got great potential and, as I said, cuts through other instruments in a song better than many of the others, with the exception of the bottom end. I do a lot of those "glisses" (hand smears), which is why I'm making a point of repeating this and asking for your opinion.
Leee
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:The point I was trying to make clear is that when attempting to play a "gliss", hand-smear, from the bottom notes, Blue3 just doesn't cut through the other instruments in a song. And when doing a direct side-by-side comparison with GSi's VB-3 (and perhaps other Hammond emulators as well) you can hear a big difference in the lack of bottom end in Blue3.

I had same effect with NI B4, I got used to it's rumbling lows. After years of playing it exclusively, I had a chance to sit behind an actual real A100 with classic leslie, first time in my life... finally :D Imagine my astonishment when I played the same gliss on it and realized that it wasn't that bassy boomy on top of the band! It was nicely blending with the band, nothing like B4/VB3 effect. I don't think they sound close to a real hammond organ live directly from a leslie.
When GG-audio said that Blue3 was made to sound very close to a real organ, I couldn't agree more, both to the organ and leslie sound. It just behaves like that A100 live! :clap: As to the bigger gliss effect, try 16' or 8' drawbar levels on max, also when EQing perhaps not necessary low but more mids would make it cut through better.
But seriously, I wouldn't want my Blue3 to sound more like VB3 or B4 :hihi: I would like it to sound like a real B3.

EDIT: Oh well, now I see you posted in the same time with me :) I'll ping back in a minute...
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Leee1102
KVRist
 
37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:58 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

I had same effect with NI B4, I got used to it's rumbling lows. After years of playing it exclusively, I had a chance to sit behind an actual real A100 with classic leslie, first time in my life... finally :D Imagine my astonishment when I played the same gliss on it and realized that it wasn't that bassy boomy on top of the band! It was nicely blending with the band, nothing like B4/VB3 effect. I don't think they sound close to a real hammond organ live directly from a leslie.
When GG-audio said that Blue3 was made to sound very close to a real organ, I couldn't agree more, both to the organ and leslie sound. It just behaves like that A100 live! :clap: As to the bigger gliss effect, try 16' or 8' drawbar levels on max, also when EQing perhaps not necessary low but more mids would make it cut through better.
But seriously, I wouldn't want my Blue3 to sound more like VB3 or B4. I would like it to sound like a real B3.


Yes, I get what you're saying. But at the same time, if you listen to classic rock albums like by Boston or The Allman Brothers, or Santana, when you hear that Hammond player do the gliss, you can hear and feel that low rumble. Maybe they added EQ in the track, maybe a real Hammond doesn't sound that way, but it really does add something (like a great drum fill) to the song when done right.
Leee
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:36 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:Chris, it seems like we've done comparisons using many of the same Hammond plugins.
But where I wrote my own conclusions, you recorded the differences and left the listeners to decide for themselves. Although I'm interested in some of YOUR opinions, especially since you obviously put a lot of work in doing the side by side comparisons.

As I have written in several previous posts, I think the Blue3 has a much brighter tone in general compared to my other favorite, GSi's VB-3, but lacks the beefy bottom end that is found in the VB-3 and other plugins. I'm wondering if you agree with that assessment?

I know I might sound like I'm trying to knock the Blue3, but I really do like this new plugin, it's got great potential and, as I said, cuts through other instruments in a song better than many of the others, with the exception of the bottom end. I do a lot of those "glisses" (hand smears), which is why I'm making a point of repeating this and asking for your opinion.

I don't know how would my answer look like, if I didn't actually play the real hammonds, for sure it would be only from a organ-plugin player perspective. But now, my answer wouldn't be much tolerant for many organ sims out there, so let me focus more on Blue3.
When playing A100 I noticed that the top octave screams, but doesn't hurt ears. My B4 likes to scream but it's very harsh in doing it and it makes it unsuable live. Some plugins don't scream at all. When playing Blue3 the same octave it does exactly what the A100 did, screams, no harshness though, same tone, same goosebumps. When playing low octaves on Blue3 the sound is warm but not insolent, just like A100 or C3 I was playing.
I wouldn't say that Blue3 is bright or lacks the bass, for me it's about the balance, and since it does sound from my full-range speakers like real hammond to me, it's got the balance nailed perfectly imo. And not only the balance but the leslie sound also, which is awesome. Just awesome! Mind you that I'm talking about a home studio use, I still didn't play Blue3 live, there's still an opinion to come on it :)
What might make our opinions differ is perhaps the way we use the plugin in music. I try it to sound the same I did with the A100 when playing single organ, no band, or some gospel/motown music. No serious rock :D Yours might be different. The response I'm getting from Blue3 is very close to those from A100 and C3, similar drawbars behaviour, overall balance, cabinet sound. It plays the same. If you need extra bass, maybe VB3 or B-5 like you said, but that's not how a hammond organ sounds to me from a cabinet. If you won't compromise the real feel, go Blue3.
Maybe some changes to your PA, don't know what you're playing from. After some live tests I will have more to say.
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:43 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Leee1102 wrote:Maybe they added EQ in the track...

Yeah I was thinking the same, or post-production. Maybe the swell pedal use in a fashion. Out of curiosity I'll take a listen the titles you mentioned, I mostly listen to contemporary gospel, and they know their job :D
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Leee1102
KVRist
 
37 posts since 28 Aug, 2009, from Washington State

Postby Leee1102; Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:03 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Chris, thanks for your opinions. I never had the pleasure of playing a real Hammond, which is a shame, because I love the sound in contributes to bands like Santana (one of my favorite bands). The closest I ever came was when I briefly owned a Nord Electro (can't remember which version) it had the best Hammond sound I ever heard, apart from the real thing. Unfortunately I had to sell it due to financial difficulties.
I still regret selling it.

But from what I've been hearing and comparing, along with your opinions, I guess I'll repeat what I said in a previous post. Many of these Hammond plugins are like comparing apples and oranges. While some DO sound closer to the real thing, it comes down to what sound you personally like best, and what fits into your music style the best. That also becomes apparent by reading various people's post, when they say they like one Hammond emulator better than another, and other opinions are the exact opposite.

One of the things I was thinking of doing is making the Blue3 my go-to organ, but when I need a gliss, I'll add a separate track using VB-3 just for the gliss part. It may not be true to the real Hammond sound, but for my personal taste in the types of songs I write, it would fit in nicely. I don't play live (at least not anymore) I spend most of my time writing and recording original songs. And if I have to describe my style it would be a cross between Santana, The Counting Crows, with Bob Dylan or Tom Petty singing (unfortunately that's what my singing is mostly compared to).

Anyway, thanks again for your opinions and advice. It was great bouncing some thoughts off you.
And I think it's great that we have so many Hammond emulators to choose from, different sounds and flavors for people to find the sounds they like the best. And in the end, I think it's how the plugins contribute to the songs they are played in. As you said, the Blue3 mixes very well with other instruments, and I agree....for the most part. :)
Leee
chris.r
KVRist
 
238 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby chris.r; Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:11 am Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

No worries! And hey, I was in your position for many years until something happened and I'm playing real hammonds now. Might happen to you at a point :). They are wonderful instruments, and they sound different from piece to piece. None of them I played, old wooden dumpy cupboards :lol:, sounded in VB3 or B-5 style though, Blue3 is the closest, and its leslie is the only choice for me now. It was pleasure to share some experience and exchange opinions with you.
GG Audio
KVRer
 
13 posts since 3 Jan, 2017

Postby GG Audio; Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:48 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

We've just released an update to Blue3 to version 1.1.0. In addition to some minor bug fixes and performance updates, Blue3 now includes Blue3Rotary, a separate plugin that consists of the Tube Overdrive and Rotary Cabinet simulations from Blue3. This means that a user can now route audio from any source into Blue3Rotary's overdrive and swirling speakers just as if they'd plugged into a vintage 122/147 cabinet. Give the free demo a try at http://gg-audio.com.

Cheers!
Bug Music
KVRer
 
12 posts since 6 Dec, 2004

Postby Bug Music; Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:36 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 is now available!

Hey all,
Long time lurker here, actually I did post a bunch of newbie questions years ago when I was first starting out, but at some point something on the forum changed (years ago I think) and my posts were lost to the sands of time. :(

But I digress...
I felt this was important enough for my once a decade post. :o
Full disclosure: I was in on the beta for this.

GG Audio did just announce that this last update includes a standalone rotary plugin (which is cool enough on it's own), but they forgot to mention one of the best things in this latest version IMHO.

There is now a second stereo output from the plugin, which is a dry signal taken from just before the pre-amp and Leslie emulation.
This makes for a lot of flexibility, and gives you (in effect) an "effects loop" to add your own plugins in line before adding the Leslie plugin.

And to hear something really cool, you can just add the rotary plugin to the second "dry" output, and suddenly you've got dual stereo Leslie's (playing with the different speeds makes for some really cool, and funky, modulation madness).

Also the rotary plugin sounds pretty awesome on guitar tracks too, the "custom" cabinet setting really nails that early Jimmie Lee Vaughn/T-Birds Vibratone sound !

So that's it...
I felt it was important enough to get up out of my comfy chair and mention. :)
I'll go back to sitting down now. :neutral:

Thanks, carry on ! :)

- Jay
egbert
KVRAF
 
3909 posts since 20 Oct, 2001, from my bolthole in the south pacific

Postby egbert; Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:31 pm Re: Vintage tonewheel organ: GG Audio-Blue3 has been updated to 1.1

Thanks for the info, Jay.
Will check out the dual outputs.
Post again sometime ;-)
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