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Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

OreoSplitter
KVRist
 
67 posts since 6 Feb, 2017

Postby OreoSplitter; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:33 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

I bought kontakt and got it refunded when I really saw what it was like beyond the hype. Most items felt like they were ten years old where you would rather buy a decent piano or brass vst rather use the bare minimum that came with konatact. Hell, even the release knob does not work with their stock piano, their own piano. Every other sampler I have used, even android samplers this function works but the fanbois will say it's a feature, it's a good thing. blah blah. Seriously, unless you are buying kontakt for OTHER libraries that require such as spitfire, pass. It's more less you paying the gate keeper and then having to paying more for the sounds you actually want. If you've got $500 or more (outside of kontakt cost) to get this all set up, then it might be worth it.

I've seen $250 sale price so regardless at full price, not worth it.
zzz00m
KVRist
 
255 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Postby zzz00m; Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:24 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Kinh wrote:
lunarchris1 wrote:I think folks have said it well so far, but to sum up, the factory library in Structure is great. The factory library with Kontakt is not so great (though not terrible). For everything else (functionality, GUI, routing, effects, sampling, etc.), Structure is worse than Kontakt. So that's really what you need to consider. Will you be happy with just the basic sound library and limited functionality?

I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound. Although I wouldn't bother using either for synth sounds, as I tend to avoid sampled synths in general. I think they just added those samples to appeal to folks without any synths in their collection.

But the real instrument collection is rather comprehensive if you bother to look into the database. It has just about every instrument you could possibly need. If not, you can add your own samples. :D

Just for perspective, you should understand that Structure, and the other original AIR instruments were exclusive for Avid and Pro Tools as RTAS plugins, before they were released as Windows/Mac plugins in VST/AU/AAX formats a few years ago. So they were no doubt used on countless professional recordings. Structure is not some cheap knock-off, just because it is being sold for cheap these days, do not underestimate it true value. You may have to put in a little time to get to know it. But if you want fast, there is Kontakt!

I think that Kontakt has become an industry standard, for professionals that depend on having access to all commercial sampled instruments. Time is money. They can afford it!
Last edited by zzz00m on Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 10 x64, Intel i3 3.4 Ghz, 8 GB RAM, SSD drive, M-Audio FW-410 with ASIO driver
flugel45
KVRAF
 
2088 posts since 8 Jun, 2002, from East of Santa Monica

Postby flugel45; Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:34 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

BillyBoyKVR wrote:Greetings Audio-Guru's!

... I'm really just interested in the best possible, amazing QUALITY finished sounds...


No question, then.... Kontakt (along with 3rd party libraries of your choice) is the winner.

Especially on the acoustic side of things, Structure instruments simply can't touch libraries for Kontakt, such as Samplemodeling and Orange Tree.
flugel45
KVRAF
 
2088 posts since 8 Jun, 2002, from East of Santa Monica

Postby flugel45; Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

BillyBoyKVR wrote:Greetings Audio-Guru's!

... I'm really just interested in the best possible, amazing QUALITY finished sounds -- especially in the natural instruments. I won't be tinkering with processing, slicing or dicing. Just be using finished samples straight up as they come, adjusting only whatever controls or switches on any given instrument's interface.



Then you might also consider Steinberg Halion Sonic (FYI: uses elicenser dongle).
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Zombie Queen
KVRAF
 
4153 posts since 1 Aug, 2005, from Warszawa, Poland

Postby Zombie Queen; Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:11 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

OreoSplitter wrote:Hell, even the release knob does not work with their stock piano, their own piano.


:scared: There's no release knob on pianos. Which is, possibly, the reason it doesn't work.
OreoSplitter
KVRist
 
67 posts since 6 Feb, 2017

Postby OreoSplitter; Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:30 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Zombie Queen wrote:
OreoSplitter wrote:Hell, even the release knob does not work with their stock piano, their own piano.


:scared: There's no release knob on pianos. Which is, possibly, the reason it doesn't work.

I've already been down this road on kontakt forums but again, every sampler and every vst that had a release knob has worked for me. Yes I get a piano does not have one. So what. Pianos do not have real features for half the knobs that are available is vst's now days. For example nearly every piano vst/sampler has adsr and yep, a piano doesn't have that in real life. That is what makes technology great. It allows us to do things not normally possible but sounds good. If a $10 android app can do this along with countless vst's and samplers, the "industry standard" should as well.
zzz00m
KVRist
 
255 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Postby zzz00m; Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:59 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Zombie Queen wrote:
OreoSplitter wrote:Hell, even the release knob does not work with their stock piano, their own piano.


:scared: There's no release knob on pianos. Which is, possibly, the reason it doesn't work.


If this is in reference to "release" as the "R" in the ADSR envelope, it should be available in all samplers.

Maybe you want some creative control over the sustain and release, especially if you are not using a sustain pedal.
Windows 10 x64, Intel i3 3.4 Ghz, 8 GB RAM, SSD drive, M-Audio FW-410 with ASIO driver
User avatar
Zombie Queen
KVRAF
 
4153 posts since 1 Aug, 2005, from Warszawa, Poland

Postby Zombie Queen; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:07 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

If you like experimenting, it takes exactly four clicks to add AHDSR envelope to any instrument you want in Kontakt. They chose not to include one by default on a piano, which is well understandable. Bashing Kontakt for not having a release knob on a piano library is plainly lunatic.
User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
3529 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:00 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

The reason why the pianos in the Kontakt factory library don't have a traditional AHDSR assigned is that the instrument plays different samples based on the key-down and release triggers: there are dedicated sustain and release samples for each.

As Zombie Queen says, it's easy to add one to the instrument, though it would be a bit weird on the instruments in the Band folder.
Kinh
KVRian
 
645 posts since 25 Aug, 2012

Postby Kinh; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:44 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:
lunarchris1 wrote:I think folks have said it well so far, but to sum up, the factory library in Structure is great. The factory library with Kontakt is not so great (though not terrible). For everything else (functionality, GUI, routing, effects, sampling, etc.), Structure is worse than Kontakt. So that's really what you need to consider. Will you be happy with just the basic sound library and limited functionality?

I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound.

Stucture 1 was released in 2007. So you're saying Xpand came after that.
Brilliant! Even if Xpand came 2nd (which it didn't) then how could it be the source of a sampler?
You're new to Protools aren't you.
BillyBoyKVR
KVRer
 
14 posts since 12 Jul, 2017

Postby BillyBoyKVR; Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:41 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Many thanks for your feedback, people! Divergent, but still educational for me.
More comments of course welcome. Who else has an opinion on this?
C'mon... don't be shy...
shidostrife
KVRist
 
237 posts since 22 Nov, 2016

Postby shidostrife; Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:05 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Yes, many of Structure's synths came from Xpand, it even said that in their names. But the acoustic instruments are its own. I believe it has wider range of instruments, especially in the "world" folder.
Tbh, I like many of Structure's sounds, more than Kontakt's factory library. But ofc, Kontakt's real strength isn't its factory library. It's the vast range of 3rd party libraries and the engine.

So my suggestion to OP would be:
If you're looking to get good variety of sampled sounds and that's it, get Structure.
If you're looking to expand your libraries beyond the factory libraries, either by spending time digging freebies or buying commercial ones, and could cope with the higher initial price, get Kontakt.
AFAIK, Kontakt also has more advanced tools for mangling with your sounds and creating your own libraries, though I don't really have a say in it as I've never used it. I used both solely as sample players.
dellboy
KVRist
 
197 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Postby dellboy; Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

flugel45 wrote:
No question, then.... Kontakt (along with 3rd party libraries of your choice) is the winner.

Especially on the acoustic side of things, Structure instruments simply can't touch libraries for Kontakt, such as Samplemodeling and Orange Tree.


Why waste money buying Kontakt if the intention is buying 3rd party libraries ?

Isn't that what the free Kontakt Player is for ?

I have both Kontakt and Structure,and to my ears the included sounds that come with Structure (37 gb) are every bit as good,if not better than the ones that come with Kontakt.

If the intention is to sample in the old school way,then why not do that with one of the free samplers out there ?

Personally,the only thing I ever do with a so called sampler,is load the included sounds and tweak them.

If the ability to sample is what a person wants,and also needs high quality sound,then Halion 6 is probably the way to go at the present time.
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Kumi_27
KVRist
 
251 posts since 26 Aug, 2011, from somewhere under the rainbow

Postby Kumi_27; Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:36 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

dellboy wrote:Why waste money buying Kontakt if the intention is buying 3rd party libraries ?
Isn't that what the free Kontakt Player is for ?


Many 3rd party libraries require full version of Kontakt and in Player they work only for 15 minutes.
It's because the developer need to buy special (and not that cheap) license to run the library in Player without time limit.
shonky
KVRist
 
195 posts since 21 Nov, 2005

Postby shonky; Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:39 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Managed to pick up Kontakt for £104 recently (freebie KP instrument from last Black Friday followed by 50% crossgrade in last NI promotion). Had Structure, didn't think much of the library, installed and removed the other month. Think the basic instruments with Kontakt are better quality, architecture and routing has a lot more flexibility and there are a helluva lot of cheap and freebie libraries available which does not seem the case for Structure (I also have Emulator X3 and Ableton's Sampler/Simpler for other duties).
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