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Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

jens
KVRAF
 
18465 posts since 12 Jul, 2003, from West Caprazumia

Postby jens; Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:46 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

You can get the whole AIR bündle (i.e. everything they sell) for around 80€ or even less during one of their regular sales...

Regarding your actual question: AIR was once Wizoo, which was specialized and highly respected in/for sample content. They did most - if not all - of the early Steinberg sample-based stuff such as the Grand and the original Hypersonic.

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ste ... nic#para11


So it should be decent.

(That being said, I could never be arsed to install it so I have no first hand experience on Structure's content - if I would use softsynths though, I wouldn't mind using Xpand² (which I do have installed), so I have no reason to assume Structure's content was any bad.)
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey
zzz00m
KVRist
 
333 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Postby zzz00m; Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:17 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Kinh wrote:
zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound.

Stucture 1 was released in 2007. So you're saying Xpand came after that.
Brilliant! Even if Xpand came 2nd (which it didn't) then how could it be the source of a sampler?
You're new to Protools aren't you.


Not a PT user, and I am new to AIR, as I picked up Structure 2 and Xpand!2 last year. Xpand!2 has only been out a few years as a VST.

But to compare them regarding samples is ridiculous. 1.5GB for Xpand!2, vs. 37GB for Structure 2.

So tell me how did they manage to resample that 1.5GB Xpand!2 library into 37GB of high quality samples for Structure? Perhaps they are not related at all, but Xpand! was certainly not the source of samples for Structure as you originally stated.
Windows 10 x64, Intel i3 3.4 Ghz, 8 GB RAM, SSD drive, M-Audio FW-410 with ASIO driver
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
3865 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:18 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

shidostrife wrote:This should be in instruments forum, not host.

on topic, I had Structure for a pretty short time, but I believe the samples are better than Kontakt's factory library. I particularly like the piano.

But of course the strength of Kontakt lies in the huge (and I mean HUGE) third party libraries available, both free and commercial.


I'm in the opposite position (i.e. I've had structure for quite a while but recently got Kontakt) and have the opposite opinion, overall. Funny how it works out. Pianos and organs are nice in Structure though, guitars and strings not so great. Nice to have both.
shidostrife
KVRist
 
331 posts since 22 Nov, 2016

Postby shidostrife; Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:53 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:
zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound.

Stucture 1 was released in 2007. So you're saying Xpand came after that.
Brilliant! Even if Xpand came 2nd (which it didn't) then how could it be the source of a sampler?
You're new to Protools aren't you.


Not a PT user, and I am new to AIR, as I picked up Structure 2 and Xpand!2 last year. Xpand!2 has only been out a few years as a VST.

But to compare them regarding samples is ridiculous. 1.5GB for Xpand!2, vs. 37GB for Structure 2.

So tell me how did they manage to resample that 1.5GB Xpand!2 library into 37GB of high quality samples for Structure? Perhaps they are not related at all, but Xpand! was certainly not the source of samples for Structure as you originally stated.


You gotta read his post again.
Xpand is the source of samples for structure's SYNTH patches, they even state it in the names, check it out yourself. The other patches are not from xpand.
zzz00m
KVRist
 
333 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Postby zzz00m; Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:51 pm Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

shidostrife wrote:
zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:
zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound.

Stucture 1 was released in 2007. So you're saying Xpand came after that.
Brilliant! Even if Xpand came 2nd (which it didn't) then how could it be the source of a sampler?
You're new to Protools aren't you.


Not a PT user, and I am new to AIR, as I picked up Structure 2 and Xpand!2 last year. Xpand!2 has only been out a few years as a VST.

But to compare them regarding samples is ridiculous. 1.5GB for Xpand!2, vs. 37GB for Structure 2.

So tell me how did they manage to resample that 1.5GB Xpand!2 library into 37GB of high quality samples for Structure? Perhaps they are not related at all, but Xpand! was certainly not the source of samples for Structure as you originally stated.


You gotta read his post again.
Xpand is the source of samples for structure's SYNTH patches, they even state it in the names, check it out yourself. The other patches are not from xpand.


I never pay any attention to synth samples... got a few synths with raw waveforms! :D

And I will add that trying to answer a question about comparing samplers by taking a cheap shot at the sampled synths, is well, off topic slightly, and could be misleading ... so who buys a sampler based on the sampled synth sounds these days, when the main point of samplers is to obtain real instrument sounds that you can't easily get with synths?
Windows 10 x64, Intel i3 3.4 Ghz, 8 GB RAM, SSD drive, M-Audio FW-410 with ASIO driver
shidostrife
KVRist
 
331 posts since 22 Nov, 2016

Postby shidostrife; Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:16 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

donkey tugger wrote:
shidostrife wrote:This should be in instruments forum, not host.

on topic, I had Structure for a pretty short time, but I believe the samples are better than Kontakt's factory library. I particularly like the piano.

But of course the strength of Kontakt lies in the huge (and I mean HUGE) third party libraries available, both free and commercial.


I'm in the opposite position (i.e. I've had structure for quite a while but recently got Kontakt) and have the opposite opinion, overall. Funny how it works out. Pianos and organs are nice in Structure though, guitars and strings not so great. Nice to have both.


Interesting. I agree with you though. The pianos are nice, guitars are meh.
I also agree that it is nice to have both. I sold my Structure a few weeks ago, considering getting the complete package after payday this month.
Kinh
KVRian
 
777 posts since 25 Aug, 2012

Postby Kinh; Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:00 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

:o
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11344 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:30 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

zzz00m wrote:So tell me how did they manage to resample that 1.5GB Xpand!2 library into 37GB of high quality samples for Structure? Perhaps they are not related at all, but Xpand! was certainly not the source of samples for Structure as you originally stated.


AFAIK Xpand!2 under the hood does not only use samples but different kinds of synth engines like e.g. FM and wavetables that do not need much or almost no extra memory.
In that respect it might be comparable to Falcon or the free UVI Workstation that also offer different synthesis methods besides sample playback.
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HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
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Jim Roseberry
KVRist
 
373 posts since 9 May, 2005

Postby Jim Roseberry; Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:40 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

If you're talking about features/functions of Kontakt 5 vs. xxxxxxx

The closest competitor to Kontakt 5 would be HALion 6.
Kontakt has much broader 3rd-party libraries available.
I'd expect HALion 6 to ultimately have broad 3rd-party libraries available. Just going to take time...
Feature/function wise, HALion 6 has advanced sampling, scripting, synthesis, etc.
In some ways, it surpasses Kontakt 5.
Jim Roseberry
Studio Cat Productions
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jim@studiocat.com
kinwie
KVRist
 
251 posts since 22 Aug, 2013

Postby kinwie; Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:42 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Kinh wrote:
zzz00m wrote:
Kinh wrote:
lunarchris1 wrote:I think folks have said it well so far, but to sum up, the factory library in Structure is great. The factory library with Kontakt is not so great (though not terrible). For everything else (functionality, GUI, routing, effects, sampling, etc.), Structure is worse than Kontakt. So that's really what you need to consider. Will you be happy with just the basic sound library and limited functionality?

I dont intend to start an argument but this comment and the one above it I wouldn't take seriously if I were you. No offense intended.

Komplete is superior in every way. This is what Structure is...a few generic horns, strings, pianos, guitars (with some nice keyswitches I might add) and the synths...they are sampled mostly from Xpand (the stock vst that comes with protools) which sounds like Hybrid3 only worse... I personally think this is a pretty tacky approach to filling Structure up but then again it's real cheap.
+ You can add new libraries in kontakt.


Wow! Where did you get that misinformation? :dog:

Structure is the source of samples used in Xpand!, and others in the AIR collection, not the other way around. Xpand! is a dumbed down rompler (actually a decent one), that contains many useful instrument sounds, and is a quick way to setup a layered or multitimbral sound.

Stucture 1 was released in 2007. So you're saying Xpand came after that.
Brilliant! Even if Xpand came 2nd (which it didn't) then how could it be the source of a sampler?
You're new to Protools aren't you.


When I was working for Digidesign reseller, we had a reseller training for South East Asia region in Bangkok Thailand around mid 2006. At that moment we had a sneak peak to the upcoming first AIEP (AIR Instrument Expansion Pack) for ProTools, which contain 5 VIs : Hybrid, Velvel, Transfuser, Strike and Structure, and the 6th was Xpand v1 that free for Protools. They all released at the same time. Those were the first products line for ProTools by Wizoo, which acquired by Digidesign and becoming AIR (Advanced Instrument Research)

Hybrid and Xpand was used to create some synth patches for Structure (iirc velvel too)
koolkeys
KVRAF
 
16260 posts since 2 Dec, 2003, from Nashville, TN

Postby koolkeys; Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:13 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Honestly, I think in the long run, there are very few reasons why you should go with Structure. Kontakt just simply has the market cornered on third party libraries. The factory library has some gems, but is largely meant as a starter, and uses older samples and more simple scripting. But it still has more features than Structure, and it opens you up to literally thousands of libraries, both free and paid.

So I think it is a no-brainer, really.

Also, as Jim said, Halion 6 is really the king right now if you want pure features and flexibility. Well, Falcon is there too and actually has more libraries available by far than Halion 6, but I feel like Halion has the edge in terms of total features. BOTH are more powerful than Kontakt if you are looking for sound design and tweaking. But if you just want playback of pre-made libraries, there is no reason to go with anything but Kontakt. You can get UVI Workstation Pro for free to play the libraries that Falcon plays. You should be set then.

Brent
My host is better than your host
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Numanoid
KVRAF
 
25523 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:19 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

BillyBoyKVR wrote:But what say ye?

Structure 2 is one of a kind in the sense that it gave me a "blue screen of death" in Windows 10 trying to load a wav sample from a SD card :scared:

And these days its GUI is painfully small on hi-res screens.

You should have taken advantage of the recent sale at NI to get updated to Kontakt full version at a very reasonable price.
Last edited by Numanoid on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
ghettosynth
KVRAF
 
9463 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:20 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

koolkeys wrote:Honestly, I think in the long run, there are very few reasons why you should go with Structure.


If you look at this as a fixed dichotomy for all time then sure, Kontakt is absolutely the better choice, but, I don't think that's a good way to look at it really.

Structure is part of a pretty unbeatable bargain on the AIR bundle. That is absolutely worth getting for multiple reasons and if Structure meets your needs then you're done. You are not going to compete with that bundle price with Kontakt on any day of any week, period.

You buy Kontakt when it's on a great sale, like it was last month.

I will say this as well, if you like to do any sampling of your own, or even create instruments from freely available samples, I think that Structure is a bit friendlier for creating sample based instruments quickly. Once you get off the deep end in terms of depth, ok, then Kontakt definitely has the edge.
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Numanoid
KVRAF
 
25523 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am Re: Advice Please - Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

ghettosynth wrote:Structure is part of a pretty unbeatable bargain on the AIR bundle.

And Kontakt is not part of Komplete ? :P

I just updated to K11 for just €99, how is that for an unbeatable bargain 8)
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martinjuenke
KVRist
 
422 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:35 am Re: Kontakt 5 vs. Structure 2 ??

Music was my first love ...
ambient music
http://www.mrtnjnk.bandcamp.com
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