any new competitor to Diva for fat sounds?

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't get the impression that new synths necessarily sound better or fatter. They just tend to have more features.

If a synth sounds too flat or thin, one can always use an EQ to compensate. I have experimented with my TB equalizer and Sylenth1 recently, there are certain frequencies that when boosted lend that extra weight or body to the sound. It is not easy to find the right settings and balance, though. I am still experimenting, looking for good YT videos to hear good recordings of hardware, etc.
EQ curves that seem to work well with many sounds on Sylenth1 are like this one:
https://app.box.com/s/o3oi5tyv4p6utbvbcgd94tyj34e1hmpv
With such settings I can get very close to the Diva sound character, but at a fraction of the CPU load.

[DJErmac]

We're on a very subjective topic, and the word is impossible to define for everyone, but when I think "fat", Diva may never come to my mind. Diva is absolutely great and has been a game changer and a piece of history (one of the 10 most memorable virtual synth ever for sure !), but when I think fatness, Diva is not the first I think of. Diva is the first I think of when 35~45 y-o friends tell me virtual synths have no soul. But when 20 y-o friends are looking for fat sound power to make the dancefloor rumble, that's another subject...

The way I see it, and I'm going to try to define it as "usable in a ultra fat sounding EDM song" so I can clearly explain where I'm going to, the best fat sounding synths that come to my mind are
- Reveal Sound Spire
- Parawave Rapid
- Vengeance Avenger

I've seen a lot of retro sounding synths mentionned here, and even if I totally understand why they are loved, I'm simply stunned that people think they sound fat. Imho most of them sound 70's and sound plain ridiculous if you try to use them in modern EDM /pop, no matter how many times you stack and layer them, they simply can't get you as fat as the modern commercial fatness you hear on the radio ! I'm not implying it's a bad thing that some synths can't be used for EDM/ modern pop of course, who cares, they are excellent for something else for sure and the proof is that some of you loooove them. I'm simply talking about the subject here, which is "fat".

So my humble opinion there, is that if you want a fat sound, you need a modern sounding synth such as Spire or Rapid, and not a nostalgic emulation that will give you a sweet musical and analog but thin sound. Try them and see if you like that modern fat character or not.

[Zexila]

Try them and see if you like that modern fat character or not.

Is modern fat bright top end? Opposed to vintage fat as heavy low/mid?

So today fat EDM is basically over processed clinically perfect and clean sounds in ear piercing in your face almost no dynamic range mixes, of course, it's one big few layers wall of sound bass drop that last 30 seconds with occasional fx flying trough after few minutes long breakdown, wow, we evolved so much.

[wagtunes]

Try them and see if you like that modern fat character or not.

Is modern fat bright top end? Opposed to vintage fat as heavy low/mid?

So today fat EDM is basically over processed clinically perfect and clean sounds in ear piercing in your face almost no dynamic range mixes, of course, it's one big few layers wall of sound bass drop that last 30 seconds with occasional fx flying trough after few minutes long breakdown, wow, we evolved so much.

Well, regardless of whether we've evolved or devolved, I get what he's saying. I've essentially simplified it to "pre supersaw" vs "post supersaw" even though I myself think an Oberheim 4 Voice or a Moog Modular sounds "fat" but that's just me.

Today's music, whether you like it or not, has a big sound that you didn't have during my era of the 70s. The 80s started getting a little bigger. But it wasn't until the 90s, IMO, that you started to REALLY get that big sound. And now today, everything is just so far over the top that, IMO, it's practically overkill. The first time I heard dubstep it was like culture shock to me.

There is no question these are two completely different sounds as far as bigness or fullness goes.

Genesis was great music.

It wasn't fat.

But nothing was back then according to "modern day" definition.

YOMV

[layzer]

So my humble opinion there, is that if you want a fat sound, you need a modern sounding synth such as Spire or Rapid, and not a nostalgic emulation that will give you a sweet musical and analog but thin sound.

no, if you want classic analog, use classic emus, if you want phat abrasive shitty modern sounds
use modern synths in combination with the faousage sattener.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2R937K_CyI

[chk071]

Today's music, whether you like it or not, has a big sound that you didn't have during my era of the 70s.

Indeed. TBH, i'm not a big friend of the "loudness war" argument. If there wasn't anything about it, the producers wouldn't do it. If you take Trance music for example (good example, because you can compare the way the music was produced in the 90's to how it is produced nowadays), it sounds a whole lot "fatter", "thicker", "better" nowadays. IMO. Has to do with layering, using unison for the sounds, and, of course, doing louder mixes. You can argue about the composing, of course.

[Zexila]

and don't forget to slap the OTT!

[Zexila]

Today's music, whether you like it or not, has a big sound that you didn't have during my era of the 70s.

Indeed. TBH, i'm not a big friend of the "loudness war" argument. If there wasn't anything about it, the producers wouldn't do it. If you take Trance music for example (good example, because you can compare the way the music was produced in the 90's to how it is produced nowadays), it sounds a whole lot "fatter", "thicker", "better" nowadays. IMO. Has to do with layering, using unison for the sounds, and, of course, doing louder mixes. You can argue about the composing, of course.

For me 90's goa trance sounds fat, today trance is just bunch of thin clinically perfect digital bright sounds layered together to make in best case scenario wall of sound bass for monkeys to jump on festivals.

[DJErmac]

Try them and see if you like that modern fat character or not.

Is modern fat bright top end? Opposed to vintage fat as heavy low end?

There's no way anybody can define what modern sound is. What I've said is purely based on what the synths are made of : they're based on a retro engine or they're not, they have only oscillators that have existed for the last 50 years or they don't, they have wavetables created in 2016 or they don't, the official expansions that are sold are mostly ultramodern EDM or they're not. Once again, I'm not saying this is good or bad that synths focus on modern techniques (all hail a world where you can get both so you get the richest possible sound !!), I'm only, only talking about fatness here, and I simply can't dissociate fatness from modernity.

My answer to your question is that imo they should have no such limit. For me, a modern sound is a sound you can take everywhere. If it always sounds -with a bright top end for example, no matter what you do-, then the sound engine is trying to emulate something or is simply crap.
For example, I think Spire can do anything, from analog sound to pure digital, and with insane fatness. Pure personal opinion of course.

[Zexila]

For example, I think Spire can do anything, from analog sound to pure digital, and with insane fatness. Pure personal opinion of course.

Well, make raw (no further over processing) psytrance bass with one instance of Spire and Moog Minitaur and call me up to chat about fatness of Spire again.

[deastman]

Hear hear! Also Oddity 2. Too bad G-Force synths don't get much mention round these parts anymore. Guess I'm just old-skool kool.

Imposcar 2 is quite fat - but it's not a new competitor

+1 for Oddity 2. I wasn't a fan of the first version, but they really stepped up their game with the second release. It sounds great, and gives you a whole bunch of extra functionality- poly mode, and extra lfo's and envelopes.

[DJErmac]

For example, I think Spire can do anything, from analog sound to pure digital, and with insane fatness. Pure personal opinion of course.

Well, make raw (no further over processing) psytrance bass with one instance of Spire and Moog Minitaur and call me up to chat about fatness of Spire again.

May I ask you what (already out) virtual synths you recommend for fatness ? There's no way I (and maybe the OP) can compare a Moog Minitaur to Spire...

[Zexila]

May I ask you what (already out) virtual synths you recommend for fatness ? There's no way I (and maybe the OP) can compare a Moog Minitaur to Spire...

For fat raw psy bass? Trilian or Sylenth are good enough, but Minitaur got solid low end which doesn't break that easily when you go too low, that's why I mentioned it, there's some stuff this older synths are good for and that's not ultra modern low/mid shy bright top end sounds that got layered with bunch of others, but star of the show sounds in more minimal mixes.

Personally I like digital clean sounds, don't care about analog character mojo or anything, don't like vinyl crackles or majority of artifacts, like my sound clean and thin, like my sergeant.

[DJErmac]

[

May I ask you what (already out) virtual synths you recommend for fatness ? There's no way I (and maybe the OP) can compare a Moog Minitaur to Spire...

For fat raw psy bass? Trilian or Sylenth are good enough, but Minitaur got solid low end which doesn't break that easily when you go too low, that's why I mentioned it, there's some stuff this older synths are good for and that's not ultra modern low/mid shy bright top end sounds that got layered with bunch of others, but star of the show sounds in more minimal mixes.

OK I see, thank you very much for your answer !

Today's music, whether you like it or not, has a big sound that you didn't have during my era of the 70s. The 80s started getting a little bigger. But it wasn't until the 90s, IMO, that you started to REALLY get that big sound. And now today, everything is just so far over the top that, IMO, it's practically overkill. The first time I heard dubstep it was like culture shock to me.

There is no question these are two completely different sounds as far as bigness or fullness goes.

Genesis was great music.

It wasn't fat.

But nothing was back then according to "modern day" definition.

YOMV

I hear you and everything I've said was totally, totally regardless of artistic considerations over mixing, composition or sound choices. I was born in the early 80's and think that fatness has become flatness over the time, especially in EDM. The sounds I love are from the late 90's. But if you know where to look there are still excellent sounds today.

But fatness is always getting fatter, somewhere in a new EDM/pop/hip hop genre, through a new bass style, with a new limiter plugin, a new psychoacoustic trick, with less and less instruments in the mix, only a bass and a kick that has less and less dynamic so it seems louder, and people ask for more. And this is what I was talking about. If this is this fatness you're talking about, those commercial pop sounds you hear on the radio, then imho only those modern tools such as Avenger, Spire or Rapid can compete (edit : I said "such as", there are other ones !!).

[wagtunes]

[

May I ask you what (already out) virtual synths you recommend for fatness ? There's no way I (and maybe the OP) can compare a Moog Minitaur to Spire...

For fat raw psy bass? Trilian or Sylenth are good enough, but Minitaur got solid low end which doesn't break that easily when you go too low, that's why I mentioned it, there's some stuff this older synths are good for and that's not ultra modern low/mid shy bright top end sounds that got layered with bunch of others, but star of the show sounds in more minimal mixes.

OK I see, thank you very much for your answer !

Today's music, whether you like it or not, has a big sound that you didn't have during my era of the 70s. The 80s started getting a little bigger. But it wasn't until the 90s, IMO, that you started to REALLY get that big sound. And now today, everything is just so far over the top that, IMO, it's practically overkill. The first time I heard dubstep it was like culture shock to me.

There is no question these are two completely different sounds as far as bigness or fullness goes.

Genesis was great music.

It wasn't fat.

But nothing was back then according to "modern day" definition.

YOMV

I hear you and everything I've said was totally, totally regardless of artistic considerations over mixing, composition or sound choices. I was born in the early 80's and think that fatness has become flatness over the time, especially in EDM. The sounds I love are from the late 90's. But if you know where to look there are still excellent sounds today.

But fatness is always getting fatter, somewhere in a new EDM/pop/hip hop genre, through a new bass style, with a new limiter plugin, a new psychoacoustic trick, with less and less instruments in the mix, only a bass and a kick that has less and less dynamic so it seems louder, and people ask for more. And this is what I was talking about. If this is this fatness you're talking about, those commercial pop sounds you hear on the radio, then imho only those modern tools such as Avenger, Spire or Rapid can compete (edit : I said "such as", there are other ones !!).

Hey, no argument from me. All I know is I just use what I like.