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lnikj
KVRAF
 
1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:11 am Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

RPH wrote:
lnikj wrote:2. What is the second External Instrument / collapsed audio effect in the Live instrument rack.


Softube Modular.


I put that badly. Reaktor FX and Modular FX are in an audio effect rack (my misunderstood "collapsed audio effect") in the second (bottom) External Instrument. What is in the first (top) External Instrument and is it relevant to the routing?

I've figured out most of the rest and can route audio from Duality and CV (very cool!) from the Curve Sequencer from Reaktor into Modular.

Whilst I think I understand how the LFO CV is supposed to get back from Modular into Reaktor (from the aux out 1L from Modular via the 'Audio From' in the external instrument), I can't get it working.

That is, the first audio in in Reaktor should be carrying the LFO CV ?? But using it modulate something in Reaktor has no effect when I change frequency??

Very confused. As you can no doubt see :)
republik
KVRist
 
154 posts since 8 Apr, 2004

Postby republik; Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:55 am Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

lnikj wrote:
RPH wrote:
lnikj wrote:2. What is the second External Instrument / collapsed audio effect in the Live instrument rack.


Softube Modular.


I put that badly. Reaktor FX and Modular FX are in an audio effect rack (my misunderstood "collapsed audio effect") in the second (bottom) External Instrument. What is in the first (top) External Instrument and is it relevant to the routing?

I've figured out most of the rest and can route audio from Duality and CV (very cool!) from the Curve Sequencer from Reaktor into Modular.

Whilst I think I understand how the LFO CV is supposed to get back from Modular into Reaktor (from the aux out 1L from Modular via the 'Audio From' in the external instrument), I can't get it working.

That is, the first audio in in Reaktor should be carrying the LFO CV ?? But using it modulate something in Reaktor has no effect when I change frequency??

Very confused. As you can no doubt see :)


Hey! You are doing everything right with the LFO CV, the only part missing (which you can't see in the screenshot) is to click the block DC toggle above the AUX 1 output in Modular FX. Meaning, make sure that DC is unblocked. Just ensure you aren't routing that AUX to your speakers or anything. If you ever want to send audio to Reaktor at audio rate (not cv) keep the block button enabled. You get the idea.

The first "external instrument" chain that your referring to is just a single external instrument device for routing midi to Reaktor FX so that I can send midi to Reaktor FX and Modular FX at the same time. The audio return for that is turned all the way down.

You could do all the routings with just regular midi and audio tracks in live and it would be more straightforward. The reason I did it this way was to encapsulate everything into an instrument rack, and save it for quick re-use.
lnikj
KVRAF
 
1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:02 am Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

republik wrote:Hey! You are doing everything right with the LFO CV, the only part missing (which you can't see in the screenshot) is to click the block DC toggle above the AUX 1 output in Modular FX. Meaning, make sure that DC is unblocked. Just ensure you aren't routing that AUX to your speakers or anything. If you ever want to send audio to Reaktor at audio rate (not cv) keep the block button enabled. You get the idea.


Many thanks for getting back to me. I've tried that and it makes no difference. I've started over and built from scratch and I'm getting the same thing happening.

Rather than the Modular LFO modulating Duality A, there is some feedback loop that means that the Curve Sequencer ends up modulating Duality A instead. I hope that makes sense.

Reaktor.png


EDIT: Here is a bare minimum of me trying to route the Modular LFO back into Reaktor. When I raise the LFO frequency the Audio Level meter in Reaktor tracks it, but no modulation actually makes it to Bento Mod A.

I am clearly doing something wrong at a very elementary level.

Reaktor-Modular.jpg
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republik
KVRist
 
154 posts since 8 Apr, 2004

Postby republik; Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:21 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

lnikj wrote:
republik wrote:Hey! You are doing everything right with the LFO CV, the only part missing (which you can't see in the screenshot) is to click the block DC toggle above the AUX 1 output in Modular FX. Meaning, make sure that DC is unblocked. Just ensure you aren't routing that AUX to your speakers or anything. If you ever want to send audio to Reaktor at audio rate (not cv) keep the block button enabled. You get the idea.


Many thanks for getting back to me. I've tried that and it makes no difference. I've started over and built from scratch and I'm getting the same thing happening.

Rather than the Modular LFO modulating Duality A, there is some feedback loop that means that the Curve Sequencer ends up modulating Duality A instead. I hope that makes sense.

Reaktor.png


EDIT: Here is a bare minimum of me trying to route the Modular LFO back into Reaktor. When I raise the LFO frequency the Audio Level meter in Reaktor tracks it, but no modulation actually makes it to Bento Mod A.

I am clearly doing something wrong at a very elementary level.

Reaktor-Modular.jpg


That's exactly how I did the routing. The only thing I can reiterate is to make sure the "Block DC On" button in Modular is turned off. You'll notice when you do that the little input meter in Reaktor will get a boost. It worked for me. If it's not for you maybe try repatching to the AUX after turning off Block DC.
christian f.
KVRist
 
126 posts since 3 Feb, 2017

Postby christian f.; Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:14 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

wagtunes wrote:Well, it's official. Softube Modular is my all time favorite synth to program. I've been working on this thing all day and I normally don't do that anymore (you do get a little bored with synths in general after 40 years) but I can't put this thing down.

I doubt I'll ever run out of ideas. You're basically limited only by the capabilities of your CPU. Granted, I've yet to go beyond 20 modules in a patch before this thing starts to buckle, but even with that limitation, there's tons you can do.

Honestly, most fun I've had programming a synth since forever.



Watch what you say now Wags !
Some people might catch feelings here ...
Also , can you back it up ? :hihi:
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:23 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

christian f. wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Well, it's official. Softube Modular is my all time favorite synth to program. I've been working on this thing all day and I normally don't do that anymore (you do get a little bored with synths in general after 40 years) but I can't put this thing down.

I doubt I'll ever run out of ideas. You're basically limited only by the capabilities of your CPU. Granted, I've yet to go beyond 20 modules in a patch before this thing starts to buckle, but even with that limitation, there's tons you can do.

Honestly, most fun I've had programming a synth since forever.



Watch what you say now Wags !
Some people might catch feelings here ...
Also , can you back it up ? :hihi:


Just out of curiosity, which part of my statement would you like me to back up?
Daags
KVRAF
 
1942 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Postby Daags; Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:28 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

christian f. wrote:can you back it up ? :hihi:


no one is asking you for a white paper ... just a link to one of your tracks, as what you claim should be self-evident in listening to one. your reluctance to do even that only speaks to the fact you are fully aware of the sheer idiocy and nonsensical nature of the shite you are peddling. :lol: :hihi: :lol: :hihi:


Is this the shit you need a $100 virtual oscillator to produce, that reaktor can't do just as 'well' ? :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
https://soundcloud.com/christianfrochte


if that's not you, chalk it up to bad luck .... searching your name on google surfaces nothing but unadulterated gash , you should consider a rebrand ... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Daags
KVRAF
 
1942 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Postby Daags; Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:37 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

ghettosynth wrote:You made some pretty bold claims about Reaktor and STM and I think that more than a few of us, who don't confuse berlin techno for wooshes and builds and who do know a thing or two about modular synths, were not on board with what you were saying.



hehe, give me a break ... this is hilarious given my own record collection and where and how I lived my 20's. But I digress.

lets just take a look at the sequence of events once more and look at things logically.

Christian F makes outlandish, totally non-sensical claim (that he engages in any number of mental gymnastics and logical fallacies to avoid substantiating) ... clearly bullshit.

The guy doesn't provide a track to go some way to illustrating what he's saying, so googling his name surfaces what ... only bullshit. Don't assume I got a bunch of Christian F results, some of which were berlin techno, and I chose the bilge because I don't know any better.

So since the clown made a completely outlandish, horse-shit claim to begin with, I wasn't going to take him too seriously about his self-applied genre specification either. From his initial statement, I assumed he was a moron, and I didn't really raise an eye-brow when the tracks I was surfacing (at that initial search) were commercial tripe. When I posted the link, I assumed I qualified my statement well enough with a derisive keyword like 'commercial', not to mention not referring to it as berlin techno, and what I also assumed was additionally clear derision in referring to the wooshes and snare rushes. Not clearly enough I guess :lol: as far as whether that awful track is EDM or 'commercial 4x4 techno' ... that's not an arse hair I'm willing to split, but if someone wants to assume I don't know my techno onions on that basis go right ahead :lol:

at any rate, it's curious that anyone is willing to take this dude at his word (about what he's producing) when the only words he has shared with us are clearly coming out of his ass, there seems to be some unanimous feeling on that ... Ultimately, it's not my fault that the only results I'm getting when I searched this dude twice are dogshit, and not what any of us would label decent techno, berlin or otherwise.

and since he won't post a track because "we're not worthy", do we really need to hear it anyway ? I think we all know his claims are totally spurious. If he gets a little chubby when he's staring at an expensive virtual modular that he's not getting with reaktor 6, and that has some positive placebo effect on the production of his epic berlin techno bangers ... so be it.

carry on...
lnikj
KVRAF
 
1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:23 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

republik wrote:
lnikj wrote:
republik wrote:Hey! You are doing everything right with the LFO CV, the only part missing (which you can't see in the screenshot) is to click the block DC toggle above the AUX 1 output in Modular FX. Meaning, make sure that DC is unblocked. Just ensure you aren't routing that AUX to your speakers or anything. If you ever want to send audio to Reaktor at audio rate (not cv) keep the block button enabled. You get the idea.


Many thanks for getting back to me. I've tried that and it makes no difference. I've started over and built from scratch and I'm getting the same thing happening.

Rather than the Modular LFO modulating Duality A, there is some feedback loop that means that the Curve Sequencer ends up modulating Duality A instead. I hope that makes sense.

Reaktor.png


EDIT: Here is a bare minimum of me trying to route the Modular LFO back into Reaktor. When I raise the LFO frequency the Audio Level meter in Reaktor tracks it, but no modulation actually makes it to Bento Mod A.

I am clearly doing something wrong at a very elementary level.

Reaktor-Modular.jpg


That's exactly how I did the routing. The only thing I can reiterate is to make sure the "Block DC On" button in Modular is turned off. You'll notice when you do that the little input meter in Reaktor will get a boost. It worked for me. If it's not for you maybe try repatching to the AUX after turning off Block DC.


OK, I have got it working.

The solution: use the Reaktor 6 MFX AU and NOT the Reaktor 6 FX VST. Obviously that wouldn't be a solution to those of you on Windows, but then you might not have the problem in the first place.

Not sure whether this is a bug or a feature mind you; in general on a Mac in Live VSTs have more features (eg midi routing & patch management) than AUs.

Anyway, got there in the end and many thanks for your time and posting the tip in the first place. :tu:

Being able to connect Reaktor and Modular together in a single patch is great. I wonder if it will be possible to do the same once the VCV bridge is out so that we can use the Mutable Instruments & Befaco modules together with Modular.

:party:
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12313 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:49 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

lnikj wrote:
Being able to connect Reaktor and Modular together in a single patch is great. I wonder if it will be possible to do the same once the VCV bridge is out so that we can use the Mutable Instruments & Befaco modules together with Modular.

:party:


Is the connection between them at audio rate? or control rate?
lnikj
KVRAF
 
1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:39 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

pdxindy wrote:
lnikj wrote:
Being able to connect Reaktor and Modular together in a single patch is great. I wonder if it will be possible to do the same once the VCV bridge is out so that we can use the Mutable Instruments & Befaco modules together with Modular.

:party:


Is the connection between them at audio rate? or control rate?


I am probably not the best person to be answering this question as I don't fully understand these things but here's a stab and somebody can correct me.

On the Reaktor side ... In that Kodiak patch above the sequencer is (presumably) passing its CV through at control rate (or is it just very slow audio rate?) on OUT1 whereas the oscillator is passing an audio rate signal on OUT2.

On the Modular side ... I think it depends on whether the signal is AC (audio) or AC/DC (either) on the AUX audio output (which you can choose).

But, I don't really understand these things as applied in a virtual context, it is just ones and zeroes and not actual voltages, so I am sure somebody else can explain it better / correct my understanding / tell me I am talking out of my *rse.
raymondwave
KVRist
 
192 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:41 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

wagtunes wrote:Welcome to West Coast Synthesis. LOL.

Seriously, it's not something that you "traditionally" use for meat and tater sounds. It's mostly used for weird shit. That's why I've always loved West Coast Synthesis more than any other and what really got me into modular synths in the first place. It's just I could never afford a Buchla (who could?)

Just have fun with it. Trust me, if it sounds weird, you're not doing anything wrong.

You're doing it quite right.


Thanks for the tips all, helped a lot.

Since buying Modular on sale last summer it's been basically the only synth I've programmed and played with. A lot of fun. It's definitely fun for the money. The money spent on various things is so relative, if I get hours and days and weeks worth of fun for $1xx or whatever, I consider it a worthy investment. I quite rarely make money out of music, but professionally it would be even easier to justify probably.

I have a question for Daags, do you consider your last post as good manners? That's pretty rough language there already.

I listen to a lot of different electronic genres, including minimal and berlin style techno, but also trance. I don't care for EDM really, but keep up with the genre just to know where it's going. "Techno" as a genre is like "rock", subgenres vary a lot.

I also find Modular great for techno and sub genres, but wouldn't necessarily try to produce an EDM radio hit with it.
vortico
KVRist
 
75 posts since 19 Jul, 2008

Postby vortico; Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 am Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

pdxindy wrote:Is the connection between them at audio rate? or control rate?

VCV Bridge will have both. The VST/AU FX plugin has a stereo send-and-return, which you can use for CV and audio between Softube Modular for example, and the VST/AU Instrument plugin has a MIDI-to-CV. Both have DAW automation parameter-to-CV.
lnikj
KVRAF
 
1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:56 am Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

vortico wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Is the connection between them at audio rate? or control rate?

VCV Bridge will have both. The VST/AU FX plugin has a stereo send-and-return, which you can use for CV and audio between Softube Modular for example, and the VST/AU Instrument plugin has a MIDI-to-CV. Both have DAW automation parameter-to-CV.


Excellent :tu: :party:
republik
KVRist
 
154 posts since 8 Apr, 2004

Postby republik; Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm Re: Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

vortico wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Is the connection between them at audio rate? or control rate?

VCV Bridge will have both. The VST/AU FX plugin has a stereo send-and-return, which you can use for CV and audio between Softube Modular for example, and the VST/AU Instrument plugin has a MIDI-to-CV. Both have DAW automation parameter-to-CV.


Awesome! Is there an ETA for VCV bridge? The VST/AU plugin.
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