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Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRist
 
372 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:58 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

Igro wrote:I'm really missing a third full-featured LFO. Two is not enough with this synth and I've already faced with this limitation. LFOs are tabbed, it shoudn't be a problem to add a third LFO button if reduce the size of the existing LFO buttons. This is my feature request. This synth can do very nice and sophisticated pads, that is why I miss another LFO. (there many effects, and they can be nicely modulated)

:pray:


You can use the MSEGs as well, they do loop if you don't set them to one shot. One shot was actually an add on Dmitry added when we have asked for it during One Synth Challenge # 105
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=493749
User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRist
 
372 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:02 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

Igro wrote:Also, I would love to see more wavetables added. The reason for this is the high quality of the factory wavatables. When I import mine, the result is not so good.


Check out for instance my Presets here: http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=one&id=3191
And I can recommand to go to the web, get yourself a number of single-cycle wavs and import some of them into the slots of an osc and play around a bit. You can even do some very rhythmic stuff with an osc only. You can have plenty of fun with it...https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/
Or you spend some time to think what all the technicalities mean and try to preprocess some samples yourself. I have used a Thron Choir, Flute and stuff for instance...

And check out the demo tracks - Note: Speech is actually done within the additive oscillator not with the noise osc!
https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/ephemeral-thorn
https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/kraf ... -drei-vier
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRist
 
372 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:19 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

Igro wrote:Also, I would love to see more wavetables added. The reason for this is the high quality of the factory wavatables. When I import mine, the result is not so good.


You have to think about what all the technicalities mean: What is the meaning of a additive wavetable slot with the resolution of 256 partials? So the highest partial/frequency needs at least 2 consecutive samples, i.e. one for the peak of a sine and one for the minimum of a sine. Could it be that if you want to sample from one of your favorite synths, the sample should be sampled from an F#4. Not exactly sure about the 4 in F#4, but in general most wavetable synths over a lenght of 128, 256, 512, 1024,... samples in lenght. If you compute it this means a F#n note...(A full cycle sine of 2048 sample does fit how often into 44100 samples per second? Then look up frequency in a frequency to note table). This is just to give you some sort of intuition about how things work in sample based wavetable synths like Tone2 Icarus. Thorn is only "similar" but not exactly "the same" because of it's additive oscillators

I did my speech samples like this - all what I say is more or less intuition based ;-)
1.) Recorde the source sample from balabolka, a text-2-speech programm
2.) load it into audacity, trim it
3.) Check out the lenght in samples, let's say it's n-samples in length.
4.) I want to feed each slot of Thorn with only 512 samples, so I compute 512 * 16 -> Target Size. 512 sample is a compromise, i.e. you need to find a good value that gives you a good resolution in terms of time and frequency.
5.) I compute a resampling rate, i.e. applying the resample -rate to the n-samples will give me 512*16 samples. Note: Applying the resampling means you lose quality if your n is larger than 512*16! The larger the difference is the more quality you lose.
6.) The resampled sample now with length 512*16 I split into 16 regions in audacity (or was it wavosaur?)
7.) Exported all regions into a wav file each
8.) Import each region into one slot one by one
9.) Setup a envelope that scans thru the slots linear fashion, so recreating the original sample

This works best, if the sample you start with is not to big, or other way round as close as possible to 16*512 samples...Thus you might want to start with the right sampling note...

BTW: you can do this speech sample approach with any synth that offers oscillators with wavetables which over slots. I have done a similar thing to U-HE Zebralette (check out: https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/osc- ... kas-attack).
Some very good synths even offer a dedicated "import sample / resample" function, thus you do not have to do it on your own, like I did. Check out Tone2 https://www.tone2.com/icarus.html or I think Avenger and Parawave Rapid have similar import functions.


Have fun
] Peter:H [
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRist
 
372 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:33 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

-deleted-
User avatar
Igro
KVRAF
 
4005 posts since 26 Apr, 2007, from Noosphere

Postby Igro; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:06 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Igro wrote:Also, I would love to see more wavetables added. The reason for this is the high quality of the factory wavatables. When I import mine, the result is not so good.


You have to think about what all the technicalities mean: What is the meaning of a additive wavetable slot with the resolution of 256 partials? So the highest partial/frequency needs at least 2 consecutive samples, i.e. one for the peak of a sine and one for the minimum of a sine. Could it be that if you want to sample from one of your favorite synths, the sample should be sampled from an F#4. Not exactly sure about the 4 in F#4, but in general most wavetable synths over a lenght of 128, 256, 512, 1024,... samples in lenght. If you compute it this means a F#n note...(A full cycle sine of 2048 sample does fit how often into 44100 samples per second? Then look up frequency in a frequency to note table). This is just to give you some sort of intuition about how things work in sample based wavetable synths like Tone2 Icarus. Thorn is only "similar" but not exactly "the same" because of it's additive oscillators

I did my speech samples like this - all what I say is more or less intuition based ;-)
1.) Recorde the source sample from balabolka, a text-2-speech programm
2.) load it into audacity, trim it
3.) Check out the lenght in samples, let's say it's n-samples in length.
4.) I want to feed each slot of Thorn with only 512 samples, so I compute 512 * 16 -> Target Size. 512 sample is a compromise, i.e. you need to find a good value that gives you a good resolution in terms of time and frequency.
5.) I compute a resampling rate, i.e. applying the resample -rate to the n-samples will give me 512*16 samples. Note: Applying the resampling means you lose quality if your n is larger than 512*16! The larger the difference is the more quality you lose.
6.) The resampled sample now with length 512*16 I split into 16 regions in audacity (or was it wavosaur?)
7.) Exported all regions into a wav file each
8.) Import each region into one slot one by one
9.) Setup a envelope that scans thru the slots linear fashion, so recreating the original sample

This works best, if the sample you start with is not to big, or other way round as close as possible to 16*512 samples...Thus you might want to start with the right sampling note...

BTW: you can do this speech sample approach with any synth that offers oscillators with wavetables which over slots. I have done a similar thing to U-HE Zebralette (check out: https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/osc- ... kas-attack).
Some very good synths even offer a dedicated "import sample / resample" function, thus you do not have to do it on your own, like I did. Check out Tone2 https://www.tone2.com/icarus.html or I think Avenger and Parawave Rapid have similar import functions.


Have fun
] Peter:H [

Thank you Peter. Very informative. The only problem is that I will not find the time to do this. Would be cool if Thorn could do this automatically, as in Icarus. But those are watable synths, not spectral, so I don't know if it possible technically for Thorn.
[For Sale] Synapse Audio EKS Pro 19$, 15£, 17€
User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRist
 
372 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:50 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

Igro wrote:Thank you Peter. Very informative. The only problem is that I will not find the time to do this. Would be cool if Thorn could do this automatically, as in Icarus. But those are watable synths, not spectral, so I don't know if it possible technically for Thorn.


Yes your right, Icarus is a bit different kind of animal. But finally they both produce sound. be it derived from a source in the time domain or the frequency domain...Anyway ask Dmitry - he is a very talented programmer and I think he could find a solution. Probably enough people should ask about it...
User avatar
PietW.
KVRian
 
755 posts since 6 May, 2010, from Munich, Germany

Postby PietW.; Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Igro wrote:Also, I would love to see more wavetables added. The reason for this is the high quality of the factory wavatables. When I import mine, the result is not so good.


You have to think about what all the technicalities mean: What is the meaning of a additive wavetable slot with the resolution of 256 partials? So the highest partial/frequency needs at least 2 consecutive samples, i.e. one for the peak of a sine and one for the minimum of a sine. Could it be that if you want to sample from one of your favorite synths, the sample should be sampled from an F#4. Not exactly sure about the 4 in F#4, but in general most wavetable synths over a lenght of 128, 256, 512, 1024,... samples in lenght. If you compute it this means a F#n note...(A full cycle sine of 2048 sample does fit how often into 44100 samples per second? Then look up frequency in a frequency to note table). This is just to give you some sort of intuition about how things work in sample based wavetable synths like Tone2 Icarus. Thorn is only "similar" but not exactly "the same" because of it's additive oscillators

I did my speech samples like this - all what I say is more or less intuition based ;-)
1.) Recorde the source sample from balabolka, a text-2-speech programm
2.) load it into audacity, trim it
3.) Check out the lenght in samples, let's say it's n-samples in length.
4.) I want to feed each slot of Thorn with only 512 samples, so I compute 512 * 16 -> Target Size. 512 sample is a compromise, i.e. you need to find a good value that gives you a good resolution in terms of time and frequency.
5.) I compute a resampling rate, i.e. applying the resample -rate to the n-samples will give me 512*16 samples. Note: Applying the resampling means you lose quality if your n is larger than 512*16! The larger the difference is the more quality you lose.
6.) The resampled sample now with length 512*16 I split into 16 regions in audacity (or was it wavosaur?)
7.) Exported all regions into a wav file each
8.) Import each region into one slot one by one
9.) Setup a envelope that scans thru the slots linear fashion, so recreating the original sample

This works best, if the sample you start with is not to big, or other way round as close as possible to 16*512 samples...Thus you might want to start with the right sampling note...

BTW: you can do this speech sample approach with any synth that offers oscillators with wavetables which over slots. I have done a similar thing to U-HE Zebralette (check out: https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/osc- ... kas-attack).
Some very good synths even offer a dedicated "import sample / resample" function, thus you do not have to do it on your own, like I did. Check out Tone2 https://www.tone2.com/icarus.html or I think Avenger and Parawave Rapid have similar import functions.


Have fun
] Peter:H [


Easier with Audioterm. Import a sample and you can save 33 files with exactly 512 samples length.
User avatar
Igro
KVRAF
 
4005 posts since 26 Apr, 2007, from Noosphere

Postby Igro; Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:23 pm Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

I would love to see a few AmpSims in the Distortion Effect Module, something very non-linear.

Thorn become my main bass synth.
[For Sale] Synapse Audio EKS Pro 19$, 15£, 17€
enCiphered
KVRist
 
39 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Postby enCiphered; Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:27 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

http://dmitrysches.com/products/thorn

it seems the download link doesn´t work anymore?
fidox
KVRist
 
48 posts since 20 May, 2002

Postby fidox; Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:15 am Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

-deleted-
Halonmusic
KVRian
 
576 posts since 13 Nov, 2015, from Norway

Postby Halonmusic; Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:40 pm Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

enCiphered wrote:http://dmitrysches.com/products/thorn

it seems the download link doesn´t work anymore?


Works for me.
User avatar
Igro
KVRAF
 
4005 posts since 26 Apr, 2007, from Noosphere

Postby Igro; Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:36 pm Re: Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

Halonmusic wrote:
enCiphered wrote:http://dmitrysches.com/products/thorn

it seems the download link doesn´t work anymore?


Works for me.


It didn't, but works now.
[For Sale] Synapse Audio EKS Pro 19$, 15£, 17€
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