Login / Register  0 items | $0.00 New#KVRDeals
chk071
KVRAF
 
13811 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:33 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

Tj Shredder wrote:
chk071 wrote:But what's the point in getting bad sound, just for the work and effort to try and make it good sound? Don't we all want to sound good with the least amount of work involved? Why do we use DAW's? We could just use tape machine, and work like in the 70ies, if it was for the work involved to get a good result.


If you look into music history, all, really all sounds we think are good, had been made with a lot of effort. Of course you might think nowadays I just need to call up that good sounding preset, it sounded so good in that hit x. But, you missed the point in that case. If you redo the hit x, well there is no need for to do it again. If you create something else out of that preset, it sounds like a clone of hit x. Nobody needs that.

Ok, so why everyone significant in music history went for the best instruments possible then? That argument really makes no sense, and rows in with anything good old freeware fundamentalist layzer claims the whole time. Why do we need payware synthesizers at all then? Why is everyone who's big in the music industry always looks for that little extra piece of sound quality? Nah, that really doesn't make sense. At least not in the extent you want it to make sense. Of course you'll always fiddle to get the best out of your music. But, that doesn't exclude also buying the best gear to do so. Actually, it is a very good argument to do so, if you think about it.
Good synths don't have a sweet spot. They ARE the sweet spot.
User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRist
 
70 posts since 6 Jan, 2017, from Berlin

Postby Tj Shredder; Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:03 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

We are talking about mastering a synth. That is probably only worth it, if it is an instrument which gives you the best sound quality. It is not about freeware vs. payware. As I recall the whole thread, all where talking about synths you have to pay for anyway (exept for the funny ones of course) All the mentioned ones allow you to call presets or to get into creating your own sounds. My claim was, create your own sounds versus "with the least amount of work involved" Its not about lazy opportunities, you won't get far sound wise.
I recently met Michael Boddiker, he was in charge of creating the sounds for a lot of monster hits throughout the last decades. He was traveling with huge equipement to all those studios. I you listen to the outcome, it was well worth the effort. Of course, if your main focus is composition, then you might not be so much interested in creating the sound with much effort. But if you really want the good sound, there are only two ways, get your own mastery or hire a master...
I mean the presets today don't sound bad at all, but that essential little difference distinguishes between a masterpiece and something we have heard already a lot in the past...
User avatar
melomood
KVRist
 
175 posts since 15 Oct, 2017, from U.S.

Postby melomood; Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

Once you sort out how they work you can master just about any modulatory paradiddle
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9599 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:18 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

foosnark wrote:Hmmm. Not trying to get into a pointless semantic argument, but I would say getting to know the general rules ((in theory and practice) of a type of synthesis does help you get comfortable and proficient with other synths more quickly.

Mastery is something above that IMHO -- knowing every nook and cranny of it, not just sound design but how it responds to different performance/sequencing techniques, how it sits in a mix, outboard effects that make it sound its best, and so on.

I"m thinking of a martial arts master, a chess master, etc. compared to someone who just knows the general principles and has some experience. Except that this isn't a competition, so a zen master maybe? Anyway.

I've played a lot of subtractive synths since the 80s, and I've used a Microbrute pretty extensively for a couple of years now... and only recently do I feel like a first dan black belt with it, not a master yet :)


Ah, okay. Now I understand what you mean by master. Yeah, well, in that case, I doubt very few of us ever really "master" any synth until we've worked with it for several years given the number of variables involved in all the areas that you've mentioned as well as areas that you haven't even touched on that I won't even bother to get into because the list is endless.

So no, I can probably honestly say that I've yet to master any synth that I have ever worked with in my entire life, including the Korg Triton that I used for over 10 years simply because the darn thing was immense and the variables probably went into the tens of thousands.

So how about we use the term "suitable realistic proficiency" instead, in which case I think I've reached that point with a great number of synths.

Semantics aside of course.
User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
 
4658 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Postby layzer; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:03 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

chk071 wrote:Ok, so why everyone significant in music history went for the best instruments possible then? That argument really makes no sense, and rows in with anything good old freeware fundamentalist layzer claims the whole time.


i dont claim anything, only that your instrument use skills define your music quality
more than the sound your instruments make.

people that spend all their time in this forum arguing about what plugin sounds
better than another lack the skills to admit it really doesnt matter. :idea:
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]
User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10118 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:15 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

layzer wrote:
chk071 wrote:Ok, so why everyone significant in music history went for the best instruments possible then? That argument really makes no sense, and rows in with anything good old freeware fundamentalist layzer claims the whole time.


i dont claim anything, only that your instrument use skills define your music quality
more than the sound your instruments make.

people that spend all their time in this forum arguing about what plugin sounds
better than another lack the skills to admit it really doesnt matter. :idea:


I basically agree. Most of my favorite songs have pretty basic synth sounds (that most EDM kids probably laugh about), but those were used in an effective, tasteful way in pleasant music with more or less meaningful lyrics.

Having said that, I do think a certain synth quality (by which I don't necessarily mean the latest and greatest with 0df filters etc.) is necessary to achieve a good sound in the mix.
User avatar
Ghost Dog
KVRist
 
53 posts since 2 Jun, 2015, from Belgrade, Serbia

Postby Ghost Dog; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:23 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

Although I like to criticize that synth about certain things, in my case, it would be DUNE2.
User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
 
4658 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Postby layzer; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

fluffy_little_something wrote:
layzer wrote:
chk071 wrote:Ok, so why everyone significant in music history went for the best instruments possible then? That argument really makes no sense, and rows in with anything good old freeware fundamentalist layzer claims the whole time.


i dont claim anything, only that your instrument use skills define your music quality
more than the sound your instruments make.

people that spend all their time in this forum arguing about what plugin sounds
better than another lack the skills to admit it really doesnt matter. :idea:


I basically agree. Most of my favorite songs have pretty basic synth sounds (that most EDM kids probably laugh about), but those were used in an effective, tasteful way in pleasant music with more or less meaningful lyrics.

Having said that, I do think a certain synth quality (by which I don't necessarily mean the latest and greatest with 0df filters etc.) is necessary to achieve a good sound in the mix.


it makes me laugh when i read "this synths fillter has better sound", yadda yadda...
you can make the same stupid argument in the visual realm saying, this paint brush
has better Bristles..... does it matter if you cant paint worth a crap?
for the type of music i like to make, older commercial and good freeware synths suffice.

someone else may require huge sample libraries to bring out their best. but just remember
what i said about the use of the instrument over it's sound defining the music's quality.
Last edited by layzer on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]
User avatar
do_androids_dream
KVRAF
 
2706 posts since 26 Oct, 2007, from Kent, UK

Postby do_androids_dream; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

f**k me.. this forum lol. Ever inventing ways to have the same conversation.
User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10118 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:57 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

I think Mastering implies that the synth is rather complex and hard to understand. It would be odd to say I master Charlatan :D

In my case I would apply that to an FM synth, whose synthesis is difficult for me to understand.
User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
8927 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

layzer wrote:better Bristols.....


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
6692 posts since 3 Jul, 2012, from Canada

Postby V0RT3X; Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

Your moms..


Synth



But in all seriousness, I’d probably pick Reaktor :party:
KVR caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL at 015f:bff7b997.
User avatar
Guenon
KVRian
 
1048 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Postby Guenon; Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:30 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

"Mastering" the use of a synth can mean different things to different people, that much is evident :). I understand the viewpoints at both ends of the spectrum, really, as I think they are both important. The general knowhow of different synthesis types and how to apply them, of which Wagtunes wrote, "mastering of a particular synth [after you are knowledgeable in synthesis] really just comes down to knowing where everything is located and any shortcuts or procedures that make adjusting each parameter as easy and quick as possible" is very important, otherwise you are just taking shots in the dark. To repeat what he said, in other words; after that point you can just calmly concentrate on learning where everything is in a particular synth, how all of it is organized, how everything is interconnected in that particular architecture, and so on.

After that comes what I personally think is actual mastery, but there could very well be some other word for that as well, so I don't sweat the definition, hah. It's about taking all that knowledge and then applying it in a way unique to the current circumstances, in this case the given synth, and for example finding improbable corner cases in which the synth excels in interesting ways when you use it in a nonconventional manner; getting to the point that you are comfortable with using the synth both "like you're supposed to" and also intentionally "wrong", making things sound good (to you) in both ways, and expressing something through actual hard work and dedication.

So I'm very much with the martial arts school of thought here, stemming from my background in things like growing up among hacker culture (demoscene types and the like, not the crack and break-in sort ;) that the word is also associated with), and creative environments that value skill, dedication and mastery of one's craft to sometimes unhealthy levels when percieved by "outsiders"; growing up with people who are not doing just the usual, but using immense amounts of time just to bring forth that finest last bit of the unusual. When talking about synths and all that, what I personally respect in a master is more like an overarching mindset, covering that methodology and commitment, not just deep knowledge of singular pieces of gear.

Anyway, if I had to pick a synth to master, in any way you prefer to think of the term, that would probably be Zebra 2 for me as well. I have used it over 11 years and I think I've come to know it pretty well ;), but yeah, I don't think I'm a master with it, and it would have to be that one.

[Edit: Zebra 3 when it comes out :P ]
User avatar
martinjuenke
KVRian
 
691 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:29 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

egbert101 wrote:I've focused down my collection into five synths that I aim to learn more about. So if I disappear for a few months, you'll know what I'll be up to. :hihi:

Obviously you will fight for the honor of Arturia V Collection 6...
Music was my first love ...
ambient music
http://www.mrtnjnk.bandcamp.com
User avatar
martinjuenke
KVRian
 
691 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:30 am Re: If You Could Only Master One Soft Synth - Which Would It Be?

Coming back to the topic:
There are Masters and Servants!
What are we?
Music was my first love ...
ambient music
http://www.mrtnjnk.bandcamp.com
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Instruments