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beely
KVRAF
 
1529 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Postby beely; Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:28 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Teksonik wrote:Why "dumb down" the plugin to make it sound like the hardware ? :?


Because the hardware sounds nice. Different to the plugin, but also nice.
Different variations of nice can be, well, nice...

Actually, the proper answer to that question is:

"Why not?"

:lol:
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Teksonik
KVRAF
 
12284 posts since 15 Sep, 2001, from Las Vegas,USA

Postby Teksonik; Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:56 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

beely wrote:"Why not?"

:lol:


Because no one has established that the hardware sounds better than the plugin. :wink:

There is this tendency to automatically assume the original sounds better than the emulation. I don't think this is always the case.

So "why not" becomes "why bother" if the plugin sounds better...... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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beely
KVRAF
 
1529 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Postby beely; Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Teksonik wrote:Because no one has established that the hardware sounds better than the plugin. :wink:


Well, I've stated my opinions on this many times - the software sounds *better*, and the hardware sounds *preferable* in some cases. I've never once said the hardware sounds better - in fact jut the opposite, the hardware sounds *worse* (in objective quality terms) but *nice* (in subjective character terms).

The highest fidelity isn't always the best choice - we love our distortion and our saturation stages in our quest for character. The convertors in the WS *do* affect sound quality noticeably - much like the I/O stages on many items of gear, sometimes desirably, sometimes not so much.

Teksonik wrote:There is this tendency to automatically assume the original sounds better than the emulation. I don't think this is always the case.


There are no assumptions from me - it's carefully evaluated opinion based on years of programming and using the WS, and the software, and my ears. I don't assume, I listen for myself, and decide what works for me.

Teksonik wrote:So "why not" becomes "why bother" if the plugin sounds better...... :shrug:


Because "better quality/fidelity" isn't always a "preferable sound" for a given part. I'm *very* used to the hardware sound (which is probably why I notice it more than most people), but I also like the clarity of the plugin. If I could only have one character, I'd take the clarity of the plugin (which i what I go for most of the time, often out of convenience of using the plugin). But just as someone might want to compress/distort/eq/whatever to get a sound quality they like, they might like the hardware qualities a bit better, subjectively, for a given part or role in a mix.

It's not about accuracy, or some quest for emulation perfection, it's just about getting the sound we want/like. As an option.

(A bit like how Roland implemented DAC emulation in the boutique D05/D50 - you can have it off, for the high fidelity sound, or on, for the worse DAC sound of the original hardware, depending on your preferences. As an option.)
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ATS
KVRAF
 
5584 posts since 20 Dec, 2002, from MD USA

Postby ATS; Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:02 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Teksonik wrote:
beely wrote:"Why not?"

:lol:


Because no one has established that the hardware sounds better than the plugin. :wink:

There is this tendency to automatically assume the original sounds better than the emulation. I don't think this is always the case.

So "why not" becomes "why bother" if the plugin sounds better...... :shrug:



I'm with you Tek
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braj
KVRAF
 
9094 posts since 4 Feb, 2004

Postby braj; Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:12 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

You can dress-down the plugin, but you can't dress-up the hardware in the same way. That said, I'd love to have the hardware anyway.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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thejonsolo
KVRAF
 
1894 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Charleston, SC

Postby thejonsolo; Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:38 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

KORG was always my favorite hardware. I still have a Kronos. Wavestation was so groundbreaking at the time, so seeing it and other KORG products as software was awesome. If they keep working on the GUI’s I think a lot of folks will be happier.

Still without updates I am still rocking the Wavestation. It sounds like the original to me down to the presets.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11944 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:20 pm Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

I own a Wavestation EX since 2004 and the plugin since around 2006. Besides that i also owned the Wavestation A/D and SR racks.

While most patches sound really similar with my WS EX and the plugin there are also several that could sound quite different.

Actually there was also a diffeernce betwen the Wavestation EX and the SR rack where the SR rack sounded more "Hi-FI" than the older Wavestations. I think that the plugin actually sounds closer to the SR rack and teh plugin includes all the factory banks from the SR.

While the SR was almost impossible to program from the hardware (which is quite simple with the EX keyboard) and had no vector stick it was the hardware with the most factory presets (3 user banks and 8 ROM banks with 50 performances in each of them).

In the past i sampled the Prophet VS waveforms from my Wavvesation EX and someone else posted waveforms at KVR that were sampled from the Wavestation plugin. I was able to notice differences with multiple waveforms that were sampled from both.

At the end both the hardware and the plugin are great but they do NOT always sound 100% identical, at least with my own experiences over more than 10 years.

Of course the converters in the hardware could make a difference but if you could notice a difference with a recording this could still matter.


Besides all that the Wavestation is still one of the "essential" synths for me so i would always need either the plugin, the hardware or both.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
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feedbackmachine
KVRer
 
16 posts since 11 Jan, 2018

Postby feedbackmachine; Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:27 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

I would be more interested in a comparison of MDE-X and the effects section of a Korg 01W, Trinity or M1.
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pdxindy
KVRAF
 
13215 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:22 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

I used to have a Wavestation and currently have the plugin. For me they sound so similar in character that I consider them the same.

Also, I think emulation is not the correct term. It's not an emulation. It's the original in software only form.

I wish Korg would make a brand new GUI for the plugin. It could be so much easier to use with a smart new re-conceived GUI.
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braj
KVRAF
 
9094 posts since 4 Feb, 2004

Postby braj; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:33 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Image
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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braj
KVRAF
 
9094 posts since 4 Feb, 2004

Postby braj; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:35 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Image
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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braj
KVRAF
 
9094 posts since 4 Feb, 2004

Postby braj; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:37 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Image
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
Spitfire31
KVRAF
 
2721 posts since 18 May, 2003, from Sweden

Postby Spitfire31; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:39 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

iPad version?
If it were easy, anybody could do it!
Examigan
KVRAF
 
4438 posts since 15 Sep, 2005, from East Coast of the USA

Postby Examigan; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:50 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Teksonik wrote:Why "dumb down" the plugin to make it sound like the hardware ? :?


I was thinking it would be nice to have as an option. In the new DX7 V for instance there is a setting you can use that is similar. From the manual:

"The earliest version of the DX-7 used a 12-bit DAC (digital-to-analog converter) and analog
companding circuitry in its final output stage. This is very low-resolution audio by today's
standards, but nevertheless has a certain appeal. So in the interest of recreating the exact
experience of owning one of the original DX-7 synthesizers we have included Vintage and
Modern options for the final output stage."
Last edited by Examigan on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fmr
KVRAF
 
7133 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:51 am Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Spitfire31 wrote:iPad version?

Yes, it's the iPad version. The editing is much more focused in wavesequences (see the first window), kind of neglecting the other components of the sound.
Fernando (FMR)
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