Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

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Cinebient wrote: The iOS version has more editing features!
Really? Like what?

AFAIK, the instrument IS the same. How can it have "more editing features"?
Fernando (FMR)

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So, let me get this straight, you haven't actually used the iOS version fmr, but you know the plugin GUI is superior? I don't understand why you would make a stink over it until you actually get a chance to try out the iOS version. I get being happy with what you're used to, but I think Cinbient is right, Korg will most likely use the iOS version when they update, I doubt they would go with the old version.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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jacqueslacouth wrote:Just to clarify (I've noticed the term thrown around a bit recently}, when a sound is described as more "Hi-Fi", is this a good thing or a bad thing?
To me Hi-Fi is a good thing maybe because I lived through the Lo-Fi days. I can't see going back. I've never owned a WS but I have owned a lot of gear from that period. I still own 4 rackmount synths from that era. If someone made plugin version of my Korg 03 R/W I'd snap it up in a second but wouldn't spend one second trying to emulate the technological disabilities of the hardware. Again probably because I don't consider noise as "character". Others may disagree....... :shrug:
jacqueslacouth wrote:But yes, as my eyes fade rapidly with age and diabetes, a larger interface would be great.
I think that's something we can all agree upon. The GUI is functional here but it would be a lot more comfortable to use if I could choose a custom size to fit my monitor size/resolution and personal preference. But after programming the Ensoniq Mirage with a two digit hexadecimal display the WS plugin GUI seems like a luxury...... :lol:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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braj wrote:So, let me get this straight, you haven't actually used the iOS version fmr, but you know the plugin GUI is superior? I don't understand why you would make a stink over it until you actually get a chance to try out the iOS version. I get being happy with what you're used to, but I think Cinbient is right, Korg will most likely use the iOS version when they update, I doubt they would go with the old version.
I stated it's my opinion, based on the knowledge I have of the hardware, the editing software and the VST version, and by looking at the screenshots published in the Korg website.

But I will concede I'm wrong, if someone posts screenshots that clearly show editing screens where all the parameters are shown, as they are in the VST version (not wavetable screens - I don't give a shit to that) and where we can clearly see the performance and patch structure, like we can in the VST GUI, and access all the different parts.

I said it: Pick the Ski Jam Performance and one of the Patches, and post the editing GUIs for us to compare.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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Teksonik wrote:But after programming the Ensoniq Mirage with a two digit hexadecimal display the WS plugin GUI seems like a luxury...... :lol:
Heh, yeah, the Mirage was, er... not optimal ;)

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fmr wrote:
braj wrote:So, let me get this straight, you haven't actually used the iOS version fmr, but you know the plugin GUI is superior? I don't understand why you would make a stink over it until you actually get a chance to try out the iOS version. I get being happy with what you're used to, but I think Cinbient is right, Korg will most likely use the iOS version when they update, I doubt they would go with the old version.
I stated it's my opinion, based on the knowledge I have of the hardware, the editing software and the VST version, and by looking at the screenshots published in the Korg website.

But I will concede I'm wrong, if someone posts screenshots that clearly show editing screens where all the parameters are shown, as they are in the VST version (not wavetable screens - I don't give a shit to that) and where we can clearly see the performance and patch structure, like we can in the VST GUI, and access all the different parts.

I said it: Pick the Ski Jam Performance and one of the Patches, and post the editing GUIs for us to compare.
I need to sleep, and don't have a clue how to take a screenshot on a iPad, but here's the manual, have a gander at it, it should tell you how to do whatever you need and in lieu of your Ski Jam shortcuts, it should enlighten you.

https://www.korguser.net/iwavestation/m ... N_OM_E.pdf
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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beely wrote:
Teksonik wrote:But after programming the Ensoniq Mirage with a two digit hexadecimal display the WS plugin GUI seems like a luxury...... :lol:
Heh, yeah, the Mirage was, er... not optimal ;)
I was using the Sonic Charge Cyclone (an emulation of the TX16W) last week, trying to devise the structure of the sample instruments, so, I know what you mean :hihi:

OTOH, I never programmed the Wavestation directly - I always used Galaxy Plus Editors or SoundDiver to do it.
Fernando (FMR)

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braj wrote: I need to sleep, and don't have a clue how to take a screenshot on a iPad, but here's the manual, have a gander at it, it should tell you how to do whatever you need and in lieu of your Ski Jam shortcuts, it should enlighten you.

https://www.korguser.net/iwavestation/m ... N_OM_E.pdf
Are you joking? That was one of the sources that led me to say the VST GUI is superior. I downloaded it when we were discussing the Korg Gadget. It is completely focused in wavesequences, and basically neglects everything else.

Tell me: Did you EVER tried to edit iWavestation? Do you know, or ever used the VST version and the hardware, and/or tried to edit them?

It seems to me that iOS people use iWavestation just as a playback instrument, and never edited it (or just clicked the Randomizer button) therefore, they look at the pretty wavesequence window and say that GUI is superior, without having the slightest idea of how complex a Wavestation Performance can be.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:
Cinebient wrote: The iOS version has more editing features!
Really? Like what?

AFAIK, the instrument IS the same. How can it have "more editing features"?
And still it has some add ons like the randomizer and a few other things, especially for editing the wave sequences much faster and straight forward.
Accept it or not. I don´t want to hurt you but it is like it is. I wish you all the best and give you a :hug:

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Yes, I own the vst, it has always been a bear to me, hard to deal with particularly because it is tiny text based in large part, and I do edit patches on the iOS version, yes I do believe all the parameters are there to edit, you are the one that never touched it fmr. Tell me what's missing :shrug: I don't get why this all upsets you so much. I'm going to take a nap.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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Cinebient wrote:
fmr wrote:
Cinebient wrote: The iOS version has more editing features!
Really? Like what?

AFAIK, the instrument IS the same. How can it have "more editing features"?
And still it has some add ons like the randomizer and a few other things, especially for editing the wave sequences much faster and straight forward.
Accept it or not. I don´t want to hurt you but it is like it is. I wish you all the best and give you a :hug:
The Randomizer is not a "feature" - it's a way to create new patches (or wavesequences or whatever it is applied on) at random (or controlled random). The morte complex the instrument is, the less it's likely to produce good results, unless you don't use a tru randomizer but a controlled one - that way, you are in fact creating variations of the same patch, and you would probably get much better results by tweaking the patch yourself. I had that feature in patch editors like Galaxy Plus and SoundDiver, and used it when I was begining. After a couple of years, after gaining more experience, I concluded that it was basically useless.

Regarding the wavesequence, I already said that the editing window is superior in the iOS version. But that's because they concentrated almost exclusively in the part of the instrument, and, as I said, basically neglected everything else. OTOH, all the other editing windows are inferior, IMO.

No need to hug, I'm not mad. I was just joking with you :D
Fernando (FMR)

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braj wrote:Yes, I own the vst, it has always been a bear to me, hard to deal with particularly because it is tiny text based in large part, and I do edit patches on the iOS version, yes I do believe all the parameters are there to edit, you are the one that never touched it fmr. Tell me what's missing :shrug: I don't get why this all upsets you so much. I'm going to take a nap.
Post a screenshot of the Performance editor. Post a screenshot of the Patch editor. Then I can compare and tell you what's missing (or not).

Anyway, you just confessed that you never really tried to edit with the VST, so, I guess you would not miss anything, since you wouldn't even know it should be there. What you want is a simplified editor, like what you have in iOS, and that's the approach I'm objecting.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:
braj wrote:Yes, I own the vst, it has always been a bear to me, hard to deal with particularly because it is tiny text based in large part, and I do edit patches on the iOS version, yes I do believe all the parameters are there to edit, you are the one that never touched it fmr. Tell me what's missing :shrug: I don't get why this all upsets you so much. I'm going to take a nap.
Post a screenshot of the Performance editor. Post a screenshot of the Patch editor. Then I can compare and tell you what's missing (or not).

Anyway, you just confessed that you never really tried to edit with the VST, so, I guess you would not miss anything, since you wouldn't even know it should be there. What you want is a simplified editor, like what you have in iOS, and that's the approach I'm objecting.
Well, for what it's worth, I've tried editing the VST and it's impossible. The GUI is so small you'd need Superman's X-Ray eyes to be able to work with that thing. I had a much easier time programming the hardware, as tedious as that thing is.

As far as the IOS version, I've never seen it but it can't possibly be worse than the VST version.

Nothing can be THAT bad.

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Gosh, they really need someone to proof read the manual and fix all the typos - it looks really poor... lots of stuff like large section headers saying "KEYBORAD" and so on. I just flipped through really quickly and saw at least three dreadful typos, and that's without *reading* it... :dog:

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Also as much as i find the iOS version looks better they still suck for multi-touch.
Korg in general has good sound engines but terrible workflow, bad preset management and not so good optimizing across platforms now too.
If they would make a Wavestation 2 or Wavestation Pro or whatever with sample import and stuff it would be interesting. At the end it´s all making more money with old code in new dress.

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