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jancivil
KVRAF
 
15097 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location
sjm wrote:
jancivil wrote:People who frequent KVR or GS or VI may listen to tracks to detect what's real. This is not normal behavior and I've not seen it outside these fora.


There's an element of truth in that. Well OK, more than an element. But there are also different degrees of expectation from casual listeners. We're all so used to hearing things like workstation string ensemble patches filling out tracks, that we kind of thinks that's what strings sound like. But even the casual listener will be able to tell you that a classical solo piano piece sounds like robots playing if you hard quantise everything and leave everything at default velocity.

So I think there's a a shifting continuum there. Sometimes it doesn't matter if it sounds fake (80s workstation strings in a hip-hop song = legit), sometimes it does (My First Casio guitar solo climax in a metal epos = fail). And while the casual listener might not know why something sounds "weird" or "wrong", they can tell - at least when it's obvious.

The more acquainted someone is with an instrument, the easier they'll find it to spot a fake. I can normally tell a guitar is fake that convinces others, simply because I play the guitar every day. I'd probably have a hard time telling a halfway decent programmed xylophone from the real thing.

[...]
I'd definitely draw the line at cupped brass; I don't think there's any way you can convincingly program that.

Yeah, no, there is no way unless it's [its character type is] sampled. There are many things like this one. So a samples library will have gestures, or the samples are of a cupped trumpet et al and a legato instrument may be made out of it. For nearly everything I've used which uses 'gestures' or loops as the terminology of the kids today has it, I hate working this way and it's not usually feasible. WarpIV Music (brass and winds, jazz-type) seems extremely well thought-through as I've done nicely with theirs.

https://youtu.be/gIUQt-9U3_c?t=1m21s
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
15097 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location
(I thought of this seeing the youtube for the updated Screaming Trumpet which is originally WarpIV Music's. That's what I'm using ^.)
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tonedef71
KVRian
 
878 posts since 20 Sep, 2007, from USA
jancivil wrote:https://youtu.be/gIUQt-9U3_c?t=1m21s

(I thought of this seeing the youtube for the updated Screaming Trumpet which is originally WarpIV Music's. That's what I'm using ^.)


Sounds good. Warp IV Music recorded some great brass sounds with articulations.
[Intel Core i7 820QM | 32GB DDR3 | Waveform 8; Studio One 4 Pro; FL Studio 20; RapidComposer; Sundog Song Studio; Pizzicato | FL Studio ASIO (WASAPI) | Win10 x64]
Armagibbon
KVRian
 
681 posts since 20 Apr, 2017
Nobody f*ckin cares if it's fake. Peeps just want the emotion, and you know what? That comes from the player. They could play on a f*ckin piece of surgeon's tubing tied to a metal pole with a pickup duct taped to it somewhere and peeps are gonna love it.

So you're usin samples and say to yourself, aw man this shit aint got that soul... nah man it's YOU what aint got that soul.

OP just use something that sounds close and get it f*ckin done. No matter what you're gonna have to learn to play a new way to bring out the good shit in the samples you get.
Last edited by Armagibbon on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12925 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Armagibbon wrote:Nobody f*ckin cares if it's fake. Peeps just want the emotion, and you know what? That comes from the player. They could play on a f*ckin piece of surgeon's tubing tied to a metal pole with a pickup duct taped to it somewhere and peeps are gonna love it.

So you're usin samples and say to yourself, aw man this shit aint got that soul... nah man it's YOU what aint got that soul.


And this all goes back to the constant debates we have here about which synth sounds better. Nobody walking around with an iPhone or whatever it is they listen to their music on gives a crap.

Have you ever heard what this stuff sounds like over an iPhone?
Armagibbon
KVRian
 
681 posts since 20 Apr, 2017
wagtunes wrote:Have you ever heard what this stuff sounds like over an iPhone?

Careful man that's my nightmare fuel ahahahaha

But man even beside the iphone and all that... peeps just wanna hear the language, the music and what it's all about

I mean any dumb fish can play a riff and throw down some notes but what's it mean? Are they speakin the language or are they just usin words they heard somewhere? So it's like I'm sayin, wanna get that nice guitar sound? Better learn to play like a guitarist, talk like a guitarist, walk like em, even f*ckin smell like one. Doesn't mean to pick up an axe and learn to shred for 15 f*ckin years while hittin the hard shit, but take a couple days to get a good look at what they're doin on stage and listen. They aint just playing some damn notes and what they do that gives it soul sure as hell doesn't come from the instrument.
sjm
KVRAF
 
1659 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
Armagibbon wrote:Peeps just want the emotion, and you know what? That comes from the player. They could play on a f*ckin piece of surgeon's tubing tied to a metal pole with a pickup duct taped to it somewhere and peeps are gonna love it.


Sort of ties in with what DT was saying about embracing the opportunities afforded by the technology. Similar to how synths were poor imitations of existing instruments, but great when treated as instruments in their own right.
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
15097 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location
wagtunes wrote:
Armagibbon wrote:Nobody f*ckin cares if it's fake. Peeps just want the emotion, and you know what? That comes from the player. They could play on a f*ckin piece of surgeon's tubing tied to a metal pole with a pickup duct taped to it somewhere and peeps are gonna love it.

So you're usin samples and say to yourself, aw man this shit aint got that soul... nah man it's YOU what aint got that soul.


And this all goes back to the constant debates we have here about which synth sounds better. Nobody walking around with an iPhone or whatever it is they listen to their music on gives a crap.

Have you ever heard what this stuff sounds like over an iPhone?

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Who cares. Yes, I have heard shitty sounding recordings on shitty media before. In fact I hear it far too frequently. In case one misses that my first sentence is a rhetorical question, I don't make music for people that "listen to music" on a fvcking phone. Even as some people listen to mine on one. Actually mine doesn't sound that bad. But I can mix.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
15097 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location
Armagibbon wrote:what they do that gives it soul sure as hell doesn't come from the instrument.

Unnecessary dichotomy. Exhibit A: the sound of Jimi Hendrix. Is it nothing to do with a Strat thru a Marshall?

The emotion is enough to carry the day... well, if the sound is putting people off hearing it maybe it isn't. Note very well, I was known for being able to make an unworkable instrument work. Still one wants to put their best foot forward and SOUND GOOD, no? YMMV?

And the reason one can make shite instruments seem like something very much happening is skills.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12925 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
This forum reminds me of when I was like 15 years old and all us guys would be sitting outside on the benches insulting each other.

I doubt there are many 15 year old's inhabiting this forum.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
15097 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location
I'm talking about ideas. If you don't like my ideas that's fine. I don't like what you have to offer here either, not at all. I think bringing in 'it's going to be heard in situations where it doesn't matter at all' is reactive and stupid. You as the arbiter for maturity in exchanges here is... do I even have words... projecting... hypocritical... and it tosses a broad ad hominem at everyone else when it's more appropriate probably to say you don't agree; or you could ignore the thing.
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2897 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell
it's not true that sound doesn't matter. as a somewhat recent example - i am a big fan of (most recent) Porcupine Tree albums, In Absentia in particular. for that album, they also have an outtakes/demos album, which i listened through. one of the tracks there was a demo without real drums (using what seemed to be placeholder electronic drum loops instead). despite that being largely the same music, and you could even hear that a lot of the tracks have made it to the final album... it sounded like ass. so yes, i care whether drums sound like drums. same goes for other instruments. and i'm sure a lot of music fans do too, if they're given an alternative. it's just that for most of us, we don't ever hear the "how it would've been if crap instruments were used", which we then mistake for "well, then it doesn't matter, people like it anyway". which version would they like better, if they were given the alternative?

on topic - i haven't ever heard a convincing electric guitar library that i would've liked to use. neither synthesized nor sampled. for acoustic guitar, there are some pretty good libraries. for electric, none of them sound like something i would like to hear.
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
4625 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:14 am Re: Is there a Guitar VST that can do actually decent rhythm guitar?

Burillo wrote:
on topic - i haven't ever heard a convincing electric guitar library that i would've liked to use. neither synthesized nor sampled. for acoustic guitar, there are some pretty good libraries. for electric, none of them sound like something i would like to hear.


I think there's a few factors to consider. If you're doing what I'd call (simplistically!) blues based rock stuff (including the metel) then most of them are unconvincing in terms of the hammer-ons/offs/bends/slides etc. Also, the programming and implementation of the strumming/muting etc (and this goes for the acoustics as well) patterns always leaves loads to be desired.

That said, I do quite like (and have quite a few) electric libraries, but then I'm doing a lot of chordal/semi picked jangly stuff and not using the supposed (cough) 'realistic' features. Plus, I generally will play the libraries in midi guitar mode using the YRG plastic guitar midi controller, so very rarely use the pattern programming, unless I'm away from home. I usually will use them (but not always) to augment some real guitar and i suppose in a way I'm doing what drummers with e-kits do, so you have to be able to play anyway! (although with the facility to edit quite easily). One real bonus of libraries is 12 string stuff (which I love), although there I'm now covered by the Line 6 Variax which I bought a few months ago which does a passable (if not totally authentic) electric 12 string.
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
4625 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:35 am Re: Is there a Guitar VST that can do actually decent rhythm guitar?

...and if anyone does fancy having an experiment with the midi guitar route for cheap then these are going for about £50 on ebay these days;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFE_R56MWr4

Basic functionality (no pitch bend/modulation), plastic buttons rather than pressure sensitive frets and no hammer-ons....but surprisingly playable/responsive and useful for getting some basic guitar stylee midi into your komputer. I bought one on a whim, still prefer the YRG, but it's not bad for what it is.

Just to demonstrate, I did all the guitars and bass on this song with it (apart from the geetar solo -variax 'les paul');

http://www.bennyleeds7.myfreeola.uk/don ... g-grip.mp3
Woodgardens
KVRist
 
167 posts since 18 Oct, 2017
"Exhibit A: the sound of Jimi Hendrix. Is it nothing to do with a Strat thru a Marshall?"

Maybe, but I think it has more to do with acid :oops:
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