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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
10489 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:07 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

Ben H wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Ben H wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Ben H wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:I guess we have a different idea of what it means to be loyal :shrug:


Yeah, it doesn't involve giving their customers the forks and a big FU to the majority of their user base and choosing to discontinue future support and updates for the sake of a few extra dollars. :shrug:


Actually, it's your loyalty I'm questioning :shrug:


It's hard to be loyal when a company chooses to betray you.


Entitled and Melodramatic! :tu:


Do you really think that a random forum member's opinion of me, matters to me?

I still stand by my original assertion about Camel Audio's behaviour.


It's not my opinion of YOU (I have no idea who you are), but of how you are acting/reacting, which I believe to be melodramatic to the point of dishonesty. You got everything you paid for, and, like the rest of us, are still able to use the software (Of course, the ultimate irony is that non-Logic Mac users are likely to find their 'Alchemy 1' software incompatible far earlier than Windows users).

No one promised anything to you, no one owed you anything, and unless you personally funded the development of alchemy 2 (Or, perhaps, Ben ran off with your wife), then no one betrayed you.

I'm guessing that as a self-proclained loyal customer, you not only bought all their plugins and all their sound-sets (You also would likely have donated more than $50 for the pay-what-you-like, charity sound-set), but also, when they initially closed down and no one knew their fate, you likely shot an email to Ben to let him know that you hoped nothing really bad had happened, and that you were there for him should he need.

I'm guessing you know nothing of the finances of Camel Audio, nor of Ben, personally. Nor do you have any idea of the financial/health situation of his family, and how that kind of possible payout, and future job security, would have benefitted them etc.

Despite your inference that you are the better man, and on principal would have turned down the opportunity, you likely would have done exactly what he had done. You feel that your payment of a few hundred dollars, for which you received the promised goods, great customer service etc.,entitles you to make claims on the developer's future to the tune of him turning down (possibly) millions of dollars, when the truly loyal thing to do would be to be happy for him. Clearly, we have different ideas of what loyalty means :shrug:
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
36709 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:51 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

tbh id slap babies and oaps for the kind of payout in that deal :)
Liero
KVRian
 
949 posts since 6 Mar, 2004

Postby Liero; Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:49 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

Native Instruments
plugin development R.I.P. circa 2015
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
10489 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:52 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

vurt wrote:tbh id slap babies and oaps for the kind of payout in that deal :)


Oap's, yes! But it'd have to have been upwards of ten million before I turned on the poor little babies :ud:
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toonertik
KVRist
 
296 posts since 15 Feb, 2017

Postby toonertik; Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:44 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:It's not my opinion of YOU (I have no idea who you are), but of how you are acting/reacting, which I believe to be melodramatic to the point of dishonesty. You got everything you paid for, and, like the rest of us, are still able to use the software (Of course, the ultimate irony is that non-Logic Mac users are likely to find their 'Alchemy 1' software incompatible far earlier than Windows users).

No one promised anything to you, no one owed you anything, and unless you personally funded the development of alchemy 2 (Or, perhaps, Ben ran off with your wife), then no one betrayed you.

I'm guessing that as a self-proclained loyal customer, you not only bought all their plugins and all their sound-sets (You also would likely have donated more than $50 for the pay-what-you-like, charity sound-set), but also, when they initially closed down and no one knew their fate, you likely shot an email to Ben to let him know that you hoped nothing really bad had happened, and that you were there for him should he need.

I'm guessing you know nothing of the finances of Camel Audio, nor of Ben, personally. Nor do you have any idea of the financial/health situation of his family, and how that kind of possible payout, and future job security, would have benefitted them etc.

Despite your inference that you are the better man, and on principal would have turned down the opportunity, you likely would have done exactly what he had done. You feel that your payment of a few hundred dollars, for which you received the promised goods, great customer service etc.,entitles you to make claims on the developer's future to the tune of him turning down (possibly) millions of dollars, when the truly loyal thing to do would be to be happy for him. Clearly, we have different ideas of what loyalty means :shrug:

++1
Romantique Tp
KVRist
 
266 posts since 2 Nov, 2015

Postby Romantique Tp; Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:16 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

gentleclockdivider wrote:IIRC xphraze was coded by wizoo ( now air tech ) for steinberg , the main coder was Paul Kellet , although I could be wrong about this one


Xphraze was coded by reFX. Wizoo only did the UI, samples and presets.

Steinberg's Halion team (who also retained the rights to the wizoosounds.com and Hypersonic samples) and UJAM have more to do with old Wizoo than AIR Music Tech does. Most of the big names left AIR like 10 years ago, though some people left shortly after the buyout by Digidesign.
dmbaer
KVRian
 
995 posts since 11 Nov, 2009, from Northern CA

Postby dmbaer; Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:37 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:No one promised anything to you, no one owed you anything


On this point I must disagree. Maybe this doesn't apply to me, but Alchemy was on sale up until the day before the announcement went out that sounds could no longer be purchased. People may well have bought it in good faith assuming that they could collect the soundsets (the full collection of which was not an insignificant cost to acquire) over time. Had I known up front, I might have chosen to round out my own collection.

It's on this point that I take great exception to how all this went down. This was a dick move, IMO, and I'm very disappointed that the transition was not made more fair to those late customers who jumped on the bandwagon just before it abruptly left town.
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murnau
KVRAF
 
5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005, from Arkham Asylum

Postby murnau; Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:53 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

dmbaer wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:No one promised anything to you, no one owed you anything


On this point I must disagree. Maybe this doesn't apply to me, but Alchemy was on sale up until the day before the announcement went out that sounds could no longer be purchased. People may well have bought it in good faith assuming that they could collect the soundsets (the full collection of which was not an insignificant cost to acquire) over time. Had I known up front, I might have chosen to round out my own collection.

It's on this point that I take great exception to how all this went down. This was a dick move, IMO, and I'm very disappointed that the transition was not made more fair to those late customers who jumped on the bandwagon just before it abruptly left town.


Not to forget the blathering about Alchemy2 coming.. ..but to be fair i must add that they announced the end a half year before they close their gates so everybody had enough the time to get rid of the stuff (transfers worked flawless).
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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thejonsolo
KVRAF
 
1915 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Charleston, SC

Postby thejonsolo; Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:11 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

Camel made empty promises, allowed time for transfers and sound purchases, stopped development, and sold out. It has been done before, but not to this industry (that I can remember). They actually set a suck precedence that is now becoming less "uncommon", such as Cakewalk (remember free lifetime upgrades just before the plunge to oblivion???). That makes them reprehensible. I still use Alchemy, and love what it can do. I really "dislike" the sellouts. It is what it is.

Owed...hmmm. I see that word tossed about so much. Loyalty...now that is a word that is obsolete.
mumpcake
KVRian
 
603 posts since 26 Aug, 2004

Postby mumpcake; Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:02 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

Nick Haddad

RG Ceballos
Even if the piano player can't play, keep the party going.
http://www.soundclick.com/mumpcake
https://mumpfucious.wordpress.com/
Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
 
4813 posts since 19 Jun, 2008, from Seattle

Postby Shabdahbriah; Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:54 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

Techno Toys.
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Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.
dmbaer
KVRian
 
995 posts since 11 Nov, 2009, from Northern CA

Postby dmbaer; Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:42 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

murnau wrote:Not to forget the blathering about Alchemy2 coming.. ..but to be fair i must add that they announced the end a half year before they close their gates so everybody had enough the time to get rid of the stuff (transfers worked flawless).


Well, maybe I missed that announcement. My memory is that one day they just up and announced "we are out of business, store is closed, back up your software" and that was it.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
36709 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:43 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
vurt wrote:tbh id slap babies and oaps for the kind of payout in that deal :)


Oap's, yes! But it'd have to have been upwards of ten million before I turned on the poor little babies :ud:


they'll be oaps one day! :box:
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
10489 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:06 am Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

vurt wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
vurt wrote:tbh id slap babies and oaps for the kind of payout in that deal :)


Oap's, yes! But it'd have to have been upwards of ten million before I turned on the poor little babies :ud:


they'll be oaps one day! :box:


Not if I slap 'em, they won't :evil:
notdeadyet
KVRer
 
1 post since 23 Mar, 2018

Postby notdeadyet; Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:45 pm Re: Dead Developers - who are you missing?

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

Debutante wrote:MichaeL Gruhn - LOSER (his name, not a comment)


I'm not dead. I just quit the whole audio plugin thing. I'm surprised - yet somewhat honored - that people are still using my stuff after 10 years.

Anyways, I put my old site from 2013 back online: https://ro.cking.ch/ (https://ro.cking.ch/)

If there is interest I could also dig up the backups for plugins that were hosted on these other (now defunct) sites:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071214223 ... sseca.com/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20071214223014/http://loser.asseca.com/)
https://web.archive.org/web/20110402005 ... hn.com:80/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20110402005929/http://audio.michael-gruhn.com:80/)
https://web.archive.org/web/20151001030 ... :80/loser/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20151001030436/http://asseca.org:80/loser/)

But anything prior 2006 requires too much digging for the value this would provide. Also if someone is still clinching on to some plugin I wrote in 2005, you need to move on!

Lastly - for the record - I always open sourced and always will open source any software before abandoning it. Always abandon responsibly!
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