Login / Register 0 items | $0.00 New @ KVR
househoppin09
KVRist
 
123 posts since 11 Nov, 2017

Postby househoppin09; Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:36 pm Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

As indicated in the subject line, I'm looking to rank the various major drum VIs on how well they do at preventing performances that no real drummer would be physically able to pull off. I have pretty much zero experience with actual drum kits, and I'd like to be able to mess around on the keys/pads without having to think or go out of my way to avoid unrealistic patterns or combinations of drum hits. I currently have Addictive Drums 2, and it's great overall, but it allows physically impossible feats--for example, you can play a tom and two different cymbals all at exactly the same time, and I'm pretty sure there aren't too many three-armed drummers out there! If there's a setting somewhere in AD2 that prevents that sort of thing from happening, that would be great, but I haven't been able to find one. So, I'd like to know how good each of the other virtual drummers are at preventing stuff like this. Bottom line, I want to just be able to go crazy on the keys or pads, and let the software do the work of keeping my performance fully within physically possible limits. Thanks in advance for all advice.
deastman
KVRAF
 
6690 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:41 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

Jamstix. It has virtual drummers with limb simulations so they can’t play anything that a real drummer couldn’t.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)
DrMEM
KVRist
 
66 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Postby DrMEM; Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:50 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

househoppin09 wrote:As indicated in the subject line, I'm looking to rank the various major drum VIs on how well they do at preventing performances that no real drummer would be physically able to pull off. I have pretty much zero experience with actual drum kits, and I'd like to be able to mess around on the keys/pads without having to think or go out of my way to avoid unrealistic patterns or combinations of drum hits. I currently have Addictive Drums 2, and it's great overall, but it allows physically impossible feats--for example, you can play a tom and two different cymbals all at exactly the same time, and I'm pretty sure there aren't too many three-armed drummers out there! If there's a setting somewhere in AD2 that prevents that sort of thing from happening, that would be great, but I haven't been able to find one. So, I'd like to know how good each of the other virtual drummers are at preventing stuff like this. Bottom line, I want to just be able to go crazy on the keys or pads, and let the software do the work of keeping my performance fully within physically possible limits. Thanks in advance for all advice.


Even if that's possible, it's not going to sound good or right unless you program it like a real drummer would play it. "Physical possibility" by itself is not enough. Why not just listen to a few songs (or better yet, watch a few videos) in the genre you're working in and try to emulate that?
Photo_G
KVRian
 
594 posts since 25 Dec, 2009

Postby Photo_G; Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:55 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

deastman wrote:Jamstix. It has virtual drummers with limb simulations so they can’t play anything that a real drummer couldn’t.


+1 JS4 is a-ma-zing...and this is only one of the reasons.

G
User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
 
14420 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:06 am Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

househoppin09 wrote: Bottom line, I want to just be able to go crazy on the keys or pads, and let the software do the work of keeping my performance fully within physically possible limits. Thanks in advance for all advice.

Well, <let the software do my work> is not a great way to proceed if one wants viable writing for any instrument.

I sometimes delete a cymbal note-on when both hands are 'occupied', but there's more than that reason, or I won't have noticed it. IE: sometimes I don't. No one is going to bust me for it, no one will be looking for it. As my drums parts are very much that of a drummer's thought. I'm fortunate to have been one in life. But I recommend getting a better grip on your drum notions.
househoppin09
KVRist
 
123 posts since 11 Nov, 2017

Postby househoppin09; Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:22 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

Thanks for the info so far, I was already intrigued by Jamstix and will now definitely be taking a closer look at that. Of course I realize that if I want to turn out realistic drum performances I'm going to need to think like a drummer... my quip about "wanting the software to do the work for me" was meant to be a bit cheeky! Even so, it really would be nice if the software would help me out a bit and lock me out of playing or programming any blatantly impossible maneuvers. Jamstix looks to be the gold standard for that, but I'd still like to know whether any of the standard drum VIs (Superior Drummer, BFD, SSD, etc.) are capable of imposing any such limitations. So, if anyone who uses them could report on that, I'd appreciate it.
User avatar
Julien Unison
KVRist
 
271 posts since 9 Oct, 2006

Postby Julien Unison; Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Thanks for posting this video of one of my 3 gods (Kevin Patrick Shields, David Keith Lynch and Richard David James).
U N I S O N : shoegaze / electronic / black metal wall of sound with heavenly voice
https://soundcloud.com/weareunison / https://www.facebook.com/unison666 / https://weareunison.com/
DrMEM
KVRist
 
66 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Postby DrMEM; Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:55 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

Superior Drummer 2 cannot.

Dunno about 3 (the upgrade price is way too high imo) but I'd be surprised if it could.
User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
 
14420 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:08 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

househoppin09 wrote:Thanks for the info so far, I was already intrigued by Jamstix and will now definitely be taking a closer look at that. Of course I realize that if I want to turn out realistic drum performances I'm going to need to think like a drummer... my quip about "wanting the software to do the work for me" was meant to be a bit cheeky! Even so, it really would be nice if the software would help me out a bit and lock me out of playing or programming any blatantly impossible maneuvers. Jamstix looks to be the gold standard for that, but I'd still like to know whether any of the standard drum VIs (Superior Drummer, BFD, SSD, etc.) are capable of imposing any such limitations. So, if anyone who uses them could report on that, I'd appreciate it.

Ok, BFD does not, or I've never seen any indication in the documentation or the interface (and I've used it since 2003). Its target market is pretty much people who know drums afaict. & I don't mean that as condescension.
User avatar
shidostrife
KVRian
 
597 posts since 22 Nov, 2016, from Tokyo, Japan

Postby shidostrife; Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:44 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

I don't know of any that does. Maybe Jamstix as mentioned before, I've never tried that one.

Thinking like a drummer is not that hard actually. For the feet, as long as you're not doing double pedal runs while messing with the hihat pedal, you're fine. For the hands, just don't hit any more than two things at a time. Except for fills, a drummer needs to use both hands during rolls, so no more than one hit at a time in fast fills.

Drummers please CMIIW.
deastman
KVRAF
 
6690 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:47 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

MDrummer is the other one people often mention, but I don’t think it strives for a realistic drummer in the same way as Jamstix.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)
deastman
KVRAF
 
6690 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:51 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

shidostrife wrote:I don't know of any that does. Maybe Jamstix as mentioned before, I've never tried that one.

Thinking like a drummer is not that hard actually. For the feet, as long as you're not doing double pedal runs while messing with the hihat pedal, you're fine. For the hands, just don't hit any more than two things at a time. Except for fills, a drummer needs to use both hands during rolls, so no more than one hit at a time in fast fills.

Drummers please CMIIW.

Jamstix not only prevents you from triggering too many drums at one time, but the limb simulation factors in travel time from one drum to the next. And you can choose different “brains” to drive the limb simulation, recreating the feel and preferences of well known drummers. And all of that works along with specific musical styles. Of course you can load in your own patterns or override any part of this, but it definitely goes farther than anyone else in simulating an actual drummer.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)
User avatar
shidostrife
KVRian
 
597 posts since 22 Nov, 2016, from Tokyo, Japan

Postby shidostrife; Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:47 pm Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

deastman wrote:
shidostrife wrote:I don't know of any that does. Maybe Jamstix as mentioned before, I've never tried that one.

Thinking like a drummer is not that hard actually. For the feet, as long as you're not doing double pedal runs while messing with the hihat pedal, you're fine. For the hands, just don't hit any more than two things at a time. Except for fills, a drummer needs to use both hands during rolls, so no more than one hit at a time in fast fills.

Drummers please CMIIW.

Jamstix not only prevents you from triggering too many drums at one time, but the limb simulation factors in travel time from one drum to the next. And you can choose different “brains” to drive the limb simulation, recreating the feel and preferences of well known drummers. And all of that works along with specific musical styles. Of course you can load in your own patterns or override any part of this, but it definitely goes farther than anyone else in simulating an actual drummer.


Now that sounds exactly like what OP wanted!
Very interesting concept, I might try Jamstix myself later. How about the samples themselves? Are they in the same ballpark as other big names?
househoppin09
KVRist
 
123 posts since 11 Nov, 2017

Postby househoppin09; Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 am Re: Which drum VI does the best job of forbidding physically unrealistic performances?

shidostrife wrote:
deastman wrote:
shidostrife wrote:I don't know of any that does. Maybe Jamstix as mentioned before, I've never tried that one.

Thinking like a drummer is not that hard actually. For the feet, as long as you're not doing double pedal runs while messing with the hihat pedal, you're fine. For the hands, just don't hit any more than two things at a time. Except for fills, a drummer needs to use both hands during rolls, so no more than one hit at a time in fast fills.

Drummers please CMIIW.

Jamstix not only prevents you from triggering too many drums at one time, but the limb simulation factors in travel time from one drum to the next. And you can choose different “brains” to drive the limb simulation, recreating the feel and preferences of well known drummers. And all of that works along with specific musical styles. Of course you can load in your own patterns or override any part of this, but it definitely goes farther than anyone else in simulating an actual drummer.


Now that sounds exactly like what OP wanted!
Very interesting concept, I might try Jamstix myself later. How about the samples themselves? Are they in the same ballpark as other big names?


I would also love to hear about how the built-in sample material in Jamstix is. How usable would it be as a self-contained solution (i.e. not triggering any other drum VIs)?


shidostrife wrote:I don't know of any that does. Maybe Jamstix as mentioned before, I've never tried that one.

Thinking like a drummer is not that hard actually. For the feet, as long as you're not doing double pedal runs while messing with the hihat pedal, you're fine. For the hands, just don't hit any more than two things at a time. Except for fills, a drummer needs to use both hands during rolls, so no more than one hit at a time in fast fills.

Drummers please CMIIW.


This is actually exactly the sort of info I need to feel more confident about what I'm doing. I know I really need to properly educate myself in this area, but in the meantime I'd love it if any experienced drummers could confirm and/or expand on this.
Next

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Instruments