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audiot
KVRist
 
97 posts since 8 Jan, 2005, from Germany

Postby audiot; Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:54 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

M4lte wrote:
audiot wrote:Stephan Bodzin is mainly using the Sub37. There are a few good tutorials how to get that bodzin sound, even with sylenth1 and arturias moog. As additional dirtyfiers I can recommend SDDR by Klanghelm and WOW2 by Sugar Bytes ... download the demo and just turn up the "hyperbolic"-knob on the init-preset ... :hyper: ... very underrated product. WOW2 is one of the most analogue sounding fx ... maybe the best for warm analogue distortion and filter.


Yes, yes I know those tutorials, they're quite good to get the first push in the direction of Bodzins sound.
But I'm actually not searching for Bodzins sound-design itself, but rather the fundamentals of the sound that gets incorporated by Stephan.
So basically I'm searching for a Synthesizer that has the characteristics I like:
Dirty, raw, powerful with tight, grinding and punchy low-end and body and a not so subtle portion of unpredictability.

So basically the perfect synth would be a very own Sub 37 but as I said I'm pretty broke and I do feel that hardware isn't needed yet. I still have to learn, even in the instruments I use for over a few years now like Massive and Zebra 2 which I bought like 4 years ago or so.

By the way, I just bought Cytomic's The Drop and it's incredible. I compared it with WOW2 and while both sound great I liked The Drop a bit more.
It really sounds good and gives everything a nice warm feeling - like it!

Have a nice weekend!


I also own Zebra ... covers a lot of sonic ground, but I doubt that any softsynth will bring you close to a Sub37 (without additonal fx tweaking). My recommendation would be to check out Diva. The softsynth that feels most analogue to me is Repro, but that's a different sound characteristic. Bazille and Oddity2 could also be interesting if you are looking for softsynths with an "analogue" sound.

For Filters I can also recommend FilterShaper by Cableguys ... not that warm but the "Sallen Key"-Mode sounds really great.

I need to check out The drop now ...
User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
11074 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:14 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Examigan wrote:Here are 4 famous plugins playing the same low note, and with a little bit of their distortion turned up...but not much really.
I tried to make each one pretty much close to each other in their sound... but it is tough, because each synth is different of course. I started with the Initialized preset with each plugin. There's a weird artifact from Soundcloud at about 8 seconds that wasn't in my file...from their "compression" I guess.

https://soundcloud.com/examigan/4-synths


Why is there oscillator beating on init patches? 8) They usually have only one saw wave... When you have several waves, the detune setting can make a big difference with the fatness of each sound.
The envelope settings are also different it seems, makes it hard to compare...
Examigan
KVRAF
 
4341 posts since 15 Sep, 2005, from East Coast of the USA

Postby Examigan; Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:30 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Examigan wrote:Here are 4 famous plugins playing the same low note, and with a little bit of their distortion turned up...but not much really.
I tried to make each one pretty much close to each other in their sound... but it is tough, because each synth is different of course. I started with the Initialized preset with each plugin. There's a weird artifact from Soundcloud at about 8 seconds that wasn't in my file...from their "compression" I guess.

https://soundcloud.com/examigan/4-synths


Why is there oscillator beating on init patches? 8) They usually have only one saw wave... When you have several waves, the detune setting can make a big difference with the fatness of each sound.
The envelope settings are also different it seems, makes it hard to compare...


I did start with an initialized patch for each, or at least my version of one :wink: if it didn't have one. For the init patches that didn't have the 2nd oscillator turn up, I did set the volume for it to be the same as the first osc. Then I just detuned one osc a tiny bit on each synth, and a few other adjustments, but not a whole lot. I tried to get them all the same or at least pretty close. It is tough though, as they are all different like I mentioned.
On one of them (the 4th one) it was harder to get the envelope to be like the others, and I just left it as-is after trying for a while to make it similar to the others. Anyway, I started this as more of a comparison for their feedback/drive that I had dialed in, not too much was used though.
Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3299 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:19 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Here is a little example how an iPhone app can sound.
I mean for an app you can´t say it doesn´t sound fat.
No FX, just 2 and later 3 OSC slightly detuned and a tiny bit of overdrive, envelopes all to zero, filter open. At the end i just play a bit with the filter. And it can have 4 voices MPE style as well.
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/m ... -app-23osc
User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
11074 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:33 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Pretty impressive for a cell phone, actually :)
How many voices can such a processor handle?
Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3299 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:39 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

fluffy_little_something wrote:Pretty impressive for a cell phone, actually :)
How many voices can such a processor handle?


This app has up to 4 voices and i can use about 3 instances on my iPhone 6S plus...which should be lame against the latest iPads.
Here is one overdriven. No FX.
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/m ... ass-iphone
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
5927 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:07 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Examigan wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Examigan wrote:Here are 4 famous plugins playing the same low note, and with a little bit of their distortion turned up...but not much really.
I tried to make each one pretty much close to each other in their sound... but it is tough, because each synth is different of course. I started with the Initialized preset with each plugin. There's a weird artifact from Soundcloud at about 8 seconds that wasn't in my file...from their "compression" I guess.

https://soundcloud.com/examigan/4-synths


Why is there oscillator beating on init patches? 8) They usually have only one saw wave... When you have several waves, the detune setting can make a big difference with the fatness of each sound.
The envelope settings are also different it seems, makes it hard to compare...


I did start with an initialized patch for each, or at least my version of one :wink: if it didn't have one. For the init patches that didn't have the 2nd oscillator turn up, I did set the volume for it to be the same as the first osc. Then I just detuned one osc a tiny bit on each synth, and a few other adjustments, but not a whole lot. I tried to get them all the same or at least pretty close. It is tough though, as they are all different like I mentioned.
On one of them (the 4th one) it was harder to get the envelope to be like the others, and I just left it as-is after trying for a while to make it similar to the others. Anyway, I started this as more of a comparison for their feedback/drive that I had dialed in, not too much was used though.


I think they sound extremely close. I'm curious to hear which was which.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.
Examigan
KVRAF
 
4341 posts since 15 Sep, 2005, from East Coast of the USA

Postby Examigan; Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:09 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

The synths in my examples were in this order:

Minimonsta
The Legend
Saurus
Diva
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
382 posts since 14 Apr, 2017, from Canada

Postby generaldiomedes; Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:16 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Bug Music wrote:Well... I might get slammed here, because it doesn't seem to get a whole lot of love 'round these parts, but I find AIR's Vacuum Pro to be very useful for that type of stuff.


I loaded this up on a whim, and yeah .. very dirty. Grittier than any Moog emulation.
M4lte
KVRist
 
34 posts since 6 Jun, 2013, from Germany

Postby M4lte; Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:17 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Hey guys,

sorry for the late reply, I had loads of work to do and was testing most of the recommended synths.
In the end I stuck with two synthesizers: The Legend (as expected) and U-He Repro.
I feel like The Legend is best suited for the sound I'm searching, it works fine with my DAW and setup and is quite cheap (EDU version :) ).
I feel Repro is the perfect addition to Legend both soundwise (it sounds really good and is able to give me exactly the sounds Legend has trouble with) and featurewise (Arpeggiator, mixable waveforms, internal LFO).
In addition to that you get a "free" 8-voice polyphony Synth (I rarely use more than 8 voices) with the same raw sound as repro-1.
So with these three workhorses and Zebra2 and Massive for complex modulated synthesis I'm suited for almost anything that I want to create. And if I get time to really dive into the inner mechanics of FM8 I also have FM-synthesis at my hands.

If I want even more grit I now got the recommended Klanghelm SDRR at my arsenal which I can put in the chain to go really dirty.
To even further spice things up I've got "The Drop" at the end of the chain to get the imo best filtering possible with even more distortion and drive.
Because of that it's now possible for me to send all outputs from groups through one extremely good filter which I can play over MIDI.
So theoretically I have the option to route infinite different synth voices from one group to one filter which potentially gives a reaaly thick sound. And the envelope of The Drop can get pretty dirty as I wanted.
For an external Arpeggiator I've got the free BlueARP - I compared it to Cthulhu and the only thing that annoys me with BlueARP is that you can only choose given steps of velocity sends for each step, so no fluent velocity changes.

The reasons I abandoned most of the recommendations were:
- Some don't work on my system (MAC only, 64 bit only)
- Some don't have the body and richness or simply sound quality I expect from a vst I (mostly) have to pay for.
- Some are not gritty or dirty enough
- Some are TOO gritty or dirty (yeah, I was surprised as I came to that conclusion demoing Vacuum :o )
- Some recommendations were simply too expensive to even demo

Yeah, so to wrap this thread up: A big thanks to everybody who took part in this thread and special thanks to examigan for the nice blind test.

BTW: I explained my vst chain in detail for people searching for a similar sound as me - maybe they find inspiration or ideas from it. There is no intent to advertise anything I work with. I highly recommend to demo most of the suggested vst's - there are some hidden diamonds in there.

Have a great weekend

M4lte

Edit:
If somebody is interested, I might upload some soundfiles created with the described workchain, I just need to find time for doing that.
Squisch
User avatar
Vertion
KVRist
 
335 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Postby Vertion; Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:40 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

FXPansion uses circuit modelling for realistic analog. Strobe2 etc.

On the freeside, try Nero, and gemini 1.
User avatar
Vertion
KVRist
 
335 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Postby Vertion; Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:42 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Saurus is great too, beef it up with a circuit modelled overdrive. Maul, scream. Or on the freeside, sga1555 (sga).
Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3299 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:58 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

M4lte wrote:Hey guys,

sorry for the late reply, I had loads of work to do and was testing most of the recommended synths.
In the end I stuck with two synthesizers: The Legend (as expected) and U-He Repro.
I feel like The Legend is best suited for the sound I'm searching, it works fine with my DAW and setup and is quite cheap (EDU version :) ).
I feel Repro is the perfect addition to Legend both soundwise (it sounds really good and is able to give me exactly the sounds Legend has trouble with) and featurewise (Arpeggiator, mixable waveforms, internal LFO).
In addition to that you get a "free" 8-voice polyphony Synth (I rarely use more than 8 voices) with the same raw sound as repro-1.
So with these three workhorses and Zebra2 and Massive for complex modulated synthesis I'm suited for almost anything that I want to create. And if I get time to really dive into the inner mechanics of FM8 I also have FM-synthesis at my hands.

If I want even more grit I now got the recommended Klanghelm SDRR at my arsenal which I can put in the chain to go really dirty.
To even further spice things up I've got "The Drop" at the end of the chain to get the imo best filtering possible with even more distortion and drive.
Because of that it's now possible for me to send all outputs from groups through one extremely good filter which I can play over MIDI.
So theoretically I have the option to route infinite different synth voices from one group to one filter which potentially gives a reaaly thick sound. And the envelope of The Drop can get pretty dirty as I wanted.
For an external Arpeggiator I've got the free BlueARP - I compared it to Cthulhu and the only thing that annoys me with BlueARP is that you can only choose given steps of velocity sends for each step, so no fluent velocity changes.

The reasons I abandoned most of the recommendations were:
- Some don't work on my system (MAC only, 64 bit only)
- Some don't have the body and richness or simply sound quality I expect from a vst I (mostly) have to pay for.
- Some are not gritty or dirty enough
- Some are TOO gritty or dirty (yeah, I was surprised as I came to that conclusion demoing Vacuum :o )
- Some recommendations were simply too expensive to even demo

Yeah, so to wrap this thread up: A big thanks to everybody who took part in this thread and special thanks to examigan for the nice blind test.

BTW: I explained my vst chain in detail for people searching for a similar sound as me - maybe they find inspiration or ideas from it. There is no intent to advertise anything I work with. I highly recommend to demo most of the suggested vst's - there are some hidden diamonds in there.

Have a great weekend

M4lte

Edit:
If somebody is interested, I might upload some soundfiles created with the described workchain, I just need to find time for doing that.


Thank´s for the update (since a lot threads which get started get out of control without the OP ever came back).
Good that you find your solution now and have fun. Would like to hear some results.
Cheers!
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11012 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:47 am Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Cinebient wrote:Thank´s for the update (since a lot threads which get started get out of control without the OP ever came back).
Good that you find your solution now and have fun. Would like to hear some results.
Cheers!


I agree. And not that I expect you to care or for this to make you feel any better about this all too common scenario, synths I bought because of suggestions from this forum.

Diva
Dune 2
Ultra Analog 2
Wiggle
Z3ta+2

And this doesn't include all the stuff I bought for my prog rock project due to member suggestions. Made all the difference in the world.

And when Biotek 2 comes out (decided to wait) I'll be picking that up because of a forum member alerting me to the major changes made to Biotek, which I found to be absolutely amazing. One of my favorite synths while demoing. Only reason I haven't purchased it is because supposedly 2 is around the corner and I don't want to be one of those late comers who miss out on the "free" or "cheap" upgrade to 2 because I bought too soon. Has already happened to me with another synth (missed cutoff by like a month) so I'm just going to wait this one out.

Point is, made a few purchases because of the suggestions made by this forum. So yeah, with all my talk about how I sometimes dislike it here, truth be told, often this place can be extremely helpful.

Just didn't want you to think it went unnoticed. It doesn't.

And that's why I'm still here.
Examigan
KVRAF
 
4341 posts since 15 Sep, 2005, from East Coast of the USA

Postby Examigan; Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:22 pm Re: "Dirty" Synth like Sub 37

Here's an example from the Sub Phatty with some delay and reverb added:

https://soundcloud.com/examigan/sub-phatty-examples

8)
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