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noiseboyuk
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2299 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Postby noiseboyuk; Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:50 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

kelvyn wrote:I mean look what’s going on at Adobe at the moment... wouldn’t want to be locked into their model right now.


(sorry this is way OT but I'm out of the loop with Adobe so curious to know what is going on?)
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martinjuenke
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1557 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:12 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

chk071 wrote:Grumpy cat strikes again.

Image

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
PS: This nice illustration can be used for commentaries in every second thread here on KVR...
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whyterabbyt
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25924 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:21 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

noiseboyuk wrote:
kelvyn wrote:I mean look what’s going on at Adobe at the moment... wouldn’t want to be locked into their model right now.


(sorry this is way OT but I'm out of the loop with Adobe so curious to know what is going on?)


well, im not sure what kelvyn is referring to, but I will tell you that enterprise licensing and deployment can be absolutely farcical.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
chk071
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16055 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

whyterabbyt wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
kelvyn wrote:I mean look what’s going on at Adobe at the moment... wouldn’t want to be locked into their model right now.


(sorry this is way OT but I'm out of the loop with Adobe so curious to know what is going on?)


well, im not sure what kelvyn is referring to, but I will tell you that enterprise licensing and deployment can be absolutely farcical.

As is 21st century consumer guerilla attitude like this:

Quasar wrote:BOYCOTT NATIVE INSTRUMENTS!

Image


In the end, i don't think neither Adobe's nor NI's products are industry standard for nothing, enterprise licensing and deployment left aside, which i don't know much about. As Adobe's products already are the standard on which many learn their craft on, it's also not much of a surprise for me that they keep using it when they're making money with what they're doing. And that Adobe charges quite a lot for it, when it is that widespread.

This reminds me of all the weekend guerilleros using that "free" Adobe CS2 version, which wasn't actually free, and took the law in their hands, like real rebels. But, if Reaper states in their EULA's that their demo version is only free to use 2 months, and someone states that he's been using it for 6 months, they're already lurking, pitchforks ready, to lynch the guy. Weird hypocrisy. Just because one is small (say "good"), and the other big (say "bad").

And, in NI's case, it even gets (way) more ridiculous, because, in this industry there isn't anything "big". NI (arguably the biggest player) with their 400 employees is a small mid tier business. Nothing more nothing less.
Last edited by chk071 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Aloysius
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21745 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from a computer

Postby Aloysius; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:37 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

Image
Impeach 64. Keep 32-bit Plug-ins alive.
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martinjuenke
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1557 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:46 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

chk071 wrote:...weekend guerilleros...

:o :roll: :P :x :idea: :hihi:
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Funkybot's Evil Twin
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5475 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:09 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

noiseboyuk wrote:AFAIK the only pro audio software that is subs-only is Adobe Audition, and perhaps not coincidentally nobody ever mentions that product online any more. I use legacy versions and love them, but there’s no way I’m subscribing for an eye-watering sum to update. All other uses of subs are options, and Adobe jumped many years ago with nobody following them (in pro audio). So it’s a little premature to call it an inevitable trend.


Just about point of clarification: Roland Cloud is sub only.
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fmr
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7305 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:44 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:AFAIK the only pro audio software that is subs-only is Adobe Audition, and perhaps not coincidentally nobody ever mentions that product online any more. I use legacy versions and love them, but there’s no way I’m subscribing for an eye-watering sum to update. All other uses of subs are options, and Adobe jumped many years ago with nobody following them (in pro audio). So it’s a little premature to call it an inevitable trend.


Just about point of clarification: Roland Cloud is sub only.

Yeah, but I don't think that can be classified as "pro audio software". It's mainly virtual instruments (at least that's the only part the attracts customers, IMO).
Fernando (FMR)
noiseboyuk
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2299 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Postby noiseboyuk; Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:17 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:Just about point of clarification: Roland Cloud is sub only.


Doh, you're quite right of course. Still, only 2 companies in 5 years is a pretty glacial pace for a supposedly unstoppable trend.

I'd be very surprised if NI didn't offer a Komplete subscription at some point, and equally surprised if it were exclusively so. I suspect that this is behind some of the changes such as Native Access.
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Jace-BeOS
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4607 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:02 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

rasmusklump wrote:
fmr wrote:NI makes some of the best virtual instruments in the market, they have one of the best "bang for the buck" packages in the market. They revolutionized the world of synthesis with Reaktor, and they revolutionized the world of sampling with Kontakt. Of course they deserve to be supported. What's your problem? :roll:


You really want to know what my problem is when I am forced to download 100s of GB through a tiny w-lan connection although they are already on the HD. And the workaround is to search outdated old software to install over the new one, and they don't even see a problem in that and don't want to change it ?. Can one say more clearly "f**k the customers" than N.I. ?


I was in the same situation when I wanted to put Kontakt 5 on my MacBook Pro after getting it on my iMac. I didn't want to waste my time shuffling DVDs, so I copied the library across the network. I think that was faster... But the time saved was lost when Kontakt wouldn't recognize its own library and I had to find the solution (thanks to EvilDragon, via the NI forum) was to download 5.6.6 and use the removed "Add Library" tool, then re-run Native Access to activate the library.

Now I want to remove items from Native Access that aren't on my machine (Blocks Wired, which is duplicate content once you have the full version of Reaktor 6), but NA has zero facility for removing products. WTAF is that about? No uninstall tool?

[Edit: yes I removed it manually, but NA still lists it as installed, but broken]

NA is all for NI's convenience, not for the user's. When it works, yeah fine, I don't have a problem being online... but when there's an edge case, or you just want to remove stuff, NA is ill-designed and NI doesn't seem to have any interest finishing the development of the tool into a tool for the actual users. It's all in the name: "Native ACCESS", not "Native Management".

If someone wants to run a [useless] petition, why not petition against software protection that hassles the paying customer. Petitioning against online connections is [even more of] a wasted effort. Regardless, unless you get the European Union to put the smackdown on software companies operating in the EU, the software industry will continue all the USA trends of abusing the customer. Right now, there's zero potential for corporations to be reeled in in the USA. It's all "destroy all regulation" these days.
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Harry_HH
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2681 posts since 4 Aug, 2006, from Helsinki

Postby Harry_HH; Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:21 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

Jace-BeOS wrote:
rasmusklump wrote:
fmr wrote:NI makes some of the best virtual instruments in the market, they have one of the best "bang for the buck" packages in the market. They revolutionized the world of synthesis with Reaktor, and they revolutionized the world of sampling with Kontakt. Of course they deserve to be supported. What's your problem? :roll:


You really want to know what my problem is when I am forced to download 100s of GB through a tiny w-lan connection although they are already on the HD. And the workaround is to search outdated old software to install over the new one, and they don't even see a problem in that and don't want to change it ?. Can one say more clearly "f**k the customers" than N.I. ?


I was in the same situation when I wanted to put Kontakt 5 on my MacBook Pro after getting it on my iMac. I didn't want to waste my time shuffling DVDs, so I copied the library across the network. I think that was faster... But the time saved was lost when Kontakt wouldn't recognize its own library and I had to find the solution (thanks to EvilDragon, via the NI forum) was to download 5.6.6 and use the removed "Add Library" tool, then re-run Native Access to activate the library.

Now I want to remove items from Native Access that aren't on my machine (Blocks Wired, which is duplicate content once you have the full version of Reaktor 6), but NA has zero facility for removing products. WTAF is that about? No uninstall tool?

[Edit: yes I removed it manually, but NA still lists it as installed, but broken]

NA is all for NI's convenience, not for the user's. When it works, yeah fine, I don't have a problem being online... but when there's an edge case, or you just want to remove stuff, NA is ill-designed and NI doesn't seem to have any interest finishing the development of the tool into a tool for the actual users. It's all in the name: "Native ACCESS", not "Native Management".

If someone wants to run a [useless] petition, why not petition against software protection that hassles the paying customer. Petitioning against online connections is [even more of] a wasted effort. Regardless, unless you get the European Union to put the smackdown on software companies operating in the EU, the software industry will continue all the USA trends of abusing the customer. Right now, there's zero potential for corporations to be reeled in in the USA. It's all "destroy all regulation" these days.


The most incomprehensible feature in the Native Access -case is the NI inability to fix the fundamental problem. And at the same time NI has removed the "add library" from the Kontakt post 5.6.6.
Its kind of irony, that when I asked the support about the un-installation, they sent me a separate program, which makes that. I didn´t use it, you can uninstall Native Access installed programs via the Win 10 REGEDIT, just by deleting , without any separate program. But of course this should be one of the NA features.
Uninstalling and on the other hand, re-activating installed NI libraries and programs, these do not belong to the Native Access at the moment. Everyone make misstakes, but NI has had more than a year time to fix that, new updates have been released, without a fix...
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EvilDragon
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16481 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:08 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

Jace-BeOS wrote:Now I want to remove items from Native Access that aren't on my machine (Blocks Wired, which is duplicate content once you have the full version of Reaktor 6), but NA has zero facility for removing products. WTAF is that about? No uninstall tool?

[Edit: yes I removed it manually, but NA still lists it as installed, but broken]


I think I mentioned to you what needs to be done (remove the XML file related to Blocks Wired). On Windows all NI programs actually do have an uninstaller, you just go through system settings and run the uninstaller. On Mac it's a bit special since they don't do uninstallers, yeah?
chk071
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16055 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:14 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

It is really beyond me how people find all the time in the world to write novels here, but can't find the respective Knowledge Base articles... https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... X-Computer

Really, the NI threads opened here ATM really make me want to pull my hair out. Guess i'll retreat for now.
rasmusklump
KVRian
 
801 posts since 13 May, 2004, from Germany

Postby rasmusklump; Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:16 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

OK I understood now, its every bodies fault but not N.I.'s
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Guenon
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1453 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Postby Guenon; Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:34 am Re: Kontakt updated to 5.8.0

chk071 wrote:As Adobe's products already are the standard on which many learn their craft on, it's also not much of a surprise for me that they keep using it when they're making money with what they're doing. And that Adobe charges quite a lot for it, when it is that widespread.


If there's only one person around who can make hammers, and people widely use those hammers, and in time it seems everyone is practically using only those hammers, the hammer maker can of course try to enforce a rental only policy. Hammers as service. But the hammers themselves just aren't a service. They exist as is, and they can be used as is, without intervention from the hammer maker. You can call the delivery and maintenance and education on and restoration of hammers a service, of course, and charge fairly based on those services. But the tool itself seen as a service is artificial exploitation of a monopoly, and after waiting a while, a model like that will be challenged every time.
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