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Ah_Dziz
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2257 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Postby Ah_Dziz; Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:09 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

wagtunes wrote:
jancivil wrote:Another thing is, you can load a ginormous preset and turn off all the cells you don't need at any given moment by double-clicking on it, restoring it by the same.


Just to clarify something. I don't have an external SSD drive and loading EWQL off of a regular external takes some time. I'd say on average it takes about 10 to 15 seconds to load a patch. But the bigger problem is, because of streaming, I get lots of dropouts in sound when playing live. There is no problem when rendering, obviously, but live playing is a problem.

Will I run into the same problem with VSL? I expect yes. Not that this is a deal breaker. The better interface alone makes it worth while. I just want to know what to expect.

My system

I7 3770K cpu @ 3.50 GHz
16 GIG Ram

I've never had luck running heavy sample material from any external drive (eSata ssds included). It seems like it nearly halves the amount of voices one can have active. I'd spring for a nice internal ssd (even if you have to buy an expansion card for it. It will make a world of difference in sample library use. VSL is far more efficient with its resource consumption than the play engine, but you will still hit a wall eventually with the voices you can stream from that drive. I'd guess you could get maybe 50% more voices out of the Vienna player than out of play with the same setup.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
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jancivil
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14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:17 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

wagtunes wrote:Ah crap. I just noticed there's a Special Edition Vol 3 with more strings with pretty much most of the missing articulations.

Now we're up to $700, which is still damn cheap for such a package.

Except now for just about $500, I can get all this plus everything else in SE Complete.

Well, I still have until the 30th to make my decision. Either way, I'm definitely adding Vol 3 to the purchase.

Ok, this is what you must mean:

Vol 1 strings: ~106 bucks here.
+ Vol 1 strs plus: now we're at ~$212.50
+ Vol 2 strings: we're at ~$300
+ Vol 2 strings plus: now at ~$386
+ Vol 3 strings: now, ~$670.

so far I'm with you or it looks like it.

SE full; so it's basically 1200 for you, 500 more than 700 then?

You'll def get more strings if you do the first group rather than thinking 1200 is covering you plus ww, brass, perc.
You get Appassionata, vs you don't. And I don't think that's all but I've run out of time for checking it.

For instance the percussion, you probably don't need and while it's very good perc, it's all in one instrument spread out over the keyboard. I actually bought it recently because it's very good and it's very cheap, but I bought a LOT of percussion otherwise.

For you I would recommend that 700 bucks for all SE strings, and then look at the VI Series for things, maybe like Brass plus.
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digitalboytn
KVRian
 
1041 posts since 7 Dec, 2008, from Global Cowboy

Postby digitalboytn; Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:25 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

The best complete bundle for orchestral composing might be the Berlin Philharmonic,or maybe even the London Symphony Orchestra :wink:

You could try something out of New York and the Czech Philharmonic is something special too...

But let's not forget the Tonhalle Orchestra from Zurich...

David Zinman has made some wonderful recordings with those musicians....

In fact,the Zinman offerings with the Tonhalle Orchestra are some of the finest recordings you will ever hear in this lifetime :party:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....
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jancivil
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14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:32 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

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Last edited by jancivil on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wagtunes
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11732 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:56 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

jancivil wrote:
Ah_Dziz wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
jancivil wrote:Another thing is, you can load a ginormous preset and turn off all the cells you don't need at any given moment by double-clicking on it, restoring it by the same.


Just to clarify something. I don't have an external SSD drive and loading time...
... lots of dropouts in sound when playing live.

Will I run into the same problem with VSL? I expect yes.
My system

I7 3770K cpu @ 3.50 GHz
16 GIG Ram

I've never had luck running heavy sample material from any external drive (eSata ssds included). It seems like it nearly halves the amount of voices one can have active. I'd spring for a nice internal ssd (even if you have to buy an expansion card for it. It will make a world of difference in sample library use. VSL is far more efficient with its resource consumption than the play engine, but you will still hit a wall eventually with the voices you can stream from that drive. I'd guess you could get maybe 50% more voices out of the Vienna player than out of play with the same setup.

You mean running the instruments as plugins in the DAW? VE Pro again, has strategies for this and through itself, running in its own process is la difference. I didn't mention Vi Pro (which you want! figure this at least into your costs, wags) and easily determining preload size in 'Directory Manager'. VE Pro is basically 'server farm/slaves' ideation but it does the same thing on same machine.

I totally agree with INTERNAL SSD. It's less costly than external, and if you can get it in your tower, there's no upside to external.


Yeah, unfortunately there's no more room in the tower. And even if there was, it's a hardware upgrade which will make half my plugins go batshit crazy thinking I have a new machine. It's just not worth the hassle.

I'll make do with what I have.

Anyway, yeah, it looks like I'm going to go with SE 1 2 and 3 for the $700 and call it a day.
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fmr
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7133 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:05 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

Caine123 wrote:symphobia 1 (already bought) + symph 2 + Lumina
or
symphobia 1 + se 1 - 4

Symphobia is just ensembles, AFAIK. VSL is a complete orchestral library, with symphonic ensembles, chamber ensembles, solo instruments, divisi, etc. If you already have Symphobia 1, and you really want to go deep into orchestral writing, you will be better served with the Special Edition Complete Bundle (1 - 4), IMO.
Fernando (FMR)
padillac
KVRian
 
556 posts since 27 Nov, 2011

Postby padillac; Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:26 pm Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

Unfortunately I misread the demo page, it applies to software only (Vienna ensemble, MIRx, etc). For the instruments you need to use the audition credit. I tried it out, it was pretty neat. I only tried playing one instrument at a time (not sure if you can feed it multiple MIDI channels to hear a full arrangement or not). Overall I am a big fan of the sound and playability.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:13 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

fmr wrote:
Caine123 wrote:symphobia 1 (already bought) + symph 2 + Lumina
or
symphobia 1 + se 1 - 4

Symphobia is just ensembles, AFAIK. VSL is a complete orchestral library, with symphonic ensembles, chamber ensembles, solo instruments, divisi, etc.

It's just two different things. Symphobia, irrational fear of orchestration. No, all seriousness aside, it's for having it all done for you vs actually orchestrating.

I didn't know there was divisi from VSL. I could have missed something, of course.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:27 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

padillac wrote: I only tried playing one instrument at a time (not sure if you can feed it multiple MIDI channels to hear a full arrangement or not).

In one VI, no, it's one channel per. Does the regular instrument have slots? Seems like there are four. Yes, it does, with the mixer. But the mixer is static with no CC application for control. Frequent feature request but pretty much refused as too much to do. There is Slot Xfade control by CC, A and B slots but it doesn't really help to make it really multitimbral. Although the matrices can be ported separate 4 stereo out in VI Pro.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11732 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:07 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

Sorry to have to revisit this thread but I'm in the process of pricing the instruments I've decided to get...Here is the list.

SE Vol. 1 STRINGS - 107.27
SE Vol. 1 STRINGS PLUS - 107.27
SE Vol. 2 STRINGS - 87.23
SE Vol. 2 STRINGS PLUS - 87.23
SPECIAL EDITION Vol. 3 - 285.27

Total - $674.27

I'm clear on all of that. That's not my problem. My problem is this.

I read that there is a free player that you can download to be able to play all this stuff.

However, I see there are other players that are not free.

So my question is this. Do I need those other players? What will they allow me to do that the free player won't allow me to do?

I don't want to get all this stuff and find out that the free player won't fulfill my needs.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:28 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

Well, the things I showed were Vienna Instrument Pro 2. That is something you should buy right away if you want the full experience of the thing.

Here's a real quick look, at VI Advanced view vs VI Pro 2 Advanced view;
plain VI first:
VI - Advanced view.png


Now VI Pro 2:
VI Pro 2 - Advanced view.png


Look at these for a minute. One thing I opened up from the browser shows all of these things from VI Pro 2 in this library which do not appear in the plain version. I don't know to what extent the things you're buying have these.

One thing I didn't go into at all was the APP Sequencer in VI Pro 2, which is the business end of where that set applies.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14438 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:41 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

Here, VI Pro 2 w. the articulations loaded (NB: all cells disabled because of the extent of this matrix) in 'Repetitions' VI Pro 2 matrix. Note there are no keyswitches assigned here; that is because it's handled in APP.
Articulation as per APP.png


The little tabs at left of the cells indicate the preset assignment in APP; here's that opened up:
APP Seq.png


So, there are many things the Pro version opens up for advanced use of libraries.

In the previous post, note the tabs in Advanced view in Pro which are not there in plain.

One thing I use all the time is the Stretch; let's say you have a roll in percussion, or a dynamics (fpf 1.5 s., etc) which doesn't fit exactly in your compo, as to timing. So, stretch that sucker! Stretch mode 1 is basically for strings; mode 2 ww and brass; 3 percussion. I don't go past +/- 15%; unnoticeable at least at this extent, very capable stretch engine. But if something needs go further than that I'd do something else.

Also see:
Advanced tab VIP 2.png
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11732 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:06 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

jancivil wrote:Here, VI Pro 2 w. the articulations loaded (NB: all cells disabled because of the extent of this matrix) in 'Repetitions' VI Pro 2 matrix. Note there are no keyswitches assigned here; that is because it's handled in APP.
Articulation as per APP.png


The little tabs at left of the cells indicate the preset assignment in APP; here's that opened up:
APP Seq.png


So, there are many things the Pro version opens up for advanced use of libraries.

In the previous post, note the tabs in Advanced view in Pro which are not there in plain.

One thing I use all the time is the Stretch; let's say you have a roll in percussion, or a dynamics (fpf 1.5 s., etc) which doesn't fit exactly in your compo, as to timing. So, stretch that sucker! Stretch mode 1 is basically for strings; mode 2 ww and brass; 3 percussion. I don't go past +/- 15%; unnoticeable at least at this extent, very capable stretch engine. But if something needs go further than that I'd do something else.

Also see:
Advanced tab VIP 2.png


Thanks. This helps a lot. So basically, more functionality for an advanced user. So the question becomes, am I going to be an advanced user? I have no idea. I guess this is always something I can get at a later date if I feel I need it.

** EDIT ** There doesn't seem to be a Pro 2 anymore. I see a Pro 6. I'm assuming that's a newer version of the software.
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thejonsolo
KVRAF
 
1894 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Charleston, SC

Postby thejonsolo; Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:43 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

You are seeing Vienna Ensemble Pro 6. She is talking about Vienna Instruments Pro 2. Two different products.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Softwar ... uments_PRO

vs

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Softwar ... semble_PRO
Last edited by thejonsolo on Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11732 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:45 am Re: Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

thejonsolo wrote:You are seeing Vienna Ensemble Pro 6. She is talking about Vienna Instruments Pro 2. Two different products.


Except I don't see a Vienna Instruments Pro 2 anywhere on their site.

It just says Pro.

** EDIT ** Okay, if you open up the link and go to the side of the page where it lists the price, that's where it includes the version number. But it's not on the main page.
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