Tone2 Gladiator 3 (public beta)

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The Gladiator 3 public beta has been released;
gladiator3.JPG
https://www.tone2.com/download.html

The update to v3.0 is a major update, which is available for free for all Gladiator2 users. It includes a larger and resizeable GUI, a patch browser, enhanced sound quality, a bigger sonic range, a more user-friendly interface and many new features. Gladiator3 is downward compatible. Existing song-projects and patches can be loaded without any further steps necessary. They will benefit from the enhanced sound quality.


New features:

- Created a new interface, which is nearly twice as large
- By clicking on 'EDITOR SIZE' you can select from four different interface sizes
- Added a comfortable, new patch browser
- New sound-quality mode 'high-end'
- Added context sensitive tooltips with detailed descriptions for all controls
- The patches can be ranked by clicking on the stars in the patch browser
- The patch rankings are stored within the file "Ranking.rnk"
- 6 additional lfo waveforms: "Stair 4 up","Stair 8 up","Stair 4 down","Stair 8 down","Stair 4 up/down","Stair 8 up/down"
- Added handbooks in English, German, French, Spanish and Italian to the new help menu
- New loop mode "Noise", which jumps to a random section
- New loop mode "\/50%", which ping-pong-loops 50% of the spectrum
- New loop mode "\/25%", which ping-pong-loops 25% of the spectrum
- 3 additional phase-modifiers "Zzzap", which sound like a laser
- 3 additional phase-modifiers "Boing", which sound like a reverse laser
- 2 additional phase-modifiers "Odd noise" and "Even noise", which noisify the spectrum
- 2 additional phase-modifiers "Odd 90" and "Even 90", which sound like a sub-oscillator
- Information tags about the patches are shown in the patch browser
- Extended halftone-range for the arpeggiator from -23 to +23
- Added cross-product-compatibility: Save->'Export...' exports the sound of osc1 as an Icarus compatible wavetable in wav format
- Video tutorials can be shown from the help menu
- Updates and additional sounds can be accessed directly from the help menu


Enhancements in sound:

- More linear frequency response for oscillators playing below 100Hz
- More precise timing for all sample-rates
- Replaced all micro-tuning algorithms with a better ones. The new ones are more subtle and sounds less 'detuned'.
- The late-reverb-tail of 'Reverb small' sounds less detuned
- The late-reverb-tail of 'Reverb large' sounds less detuned
- The late-reverb-tail of 'Reverb ultra' sounds less detuned
- All effects do come with default settings now and are more useable


Enhancements for the interface:

- Re-rendered the old GUI with sharper texts
- The envelope's attack, decay, and release time is displayed in seconds
- Registration screen is now also available in German
- Renaming a preset is more straightforward
- The version number now can be also shown from within help menu
- The updated credits can be shown by clicking on help menu
- The parameter info display is able to show longer texts now
- Mousewheel support for knobs and list selectors
- Double-clicking a knob or slider resets it to the default value
- More detailed spectrum display
- Better init patch
- Enhanced graphics
- Added messages boxes with info for some possible errors
- Many smaller enhancements


Changes:

- Loading and saving banks can now be accessed with a new menu called 'load' and 'save'
- Renamed some parameters to be more consistent with the industry standards
- Updated some texts


Fixes:

- The timing in 44Khz and 48Khz could have been out-of-sync if large block-sizes were used
- Fixed some typos
- Fixed a couple of wrong pixels
- Fixed a possible bug with 'static' loop mode
- Compatibility fix for the 'm' key
- Fixed a possible crash when the splash-screen was opened during closing
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Last edited by exmatproton on Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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If only their synths wouldn't be so f*** expensive, and they wouldn't take 25 € for a license transfer, i would have bought and kept one of their synths already...

Sorry for the rant. I like some of their synths, like Electra (well for the sound part, at least), Saurus and Icarus, but, they either never have a sale where it would make sense to buy (mostly just 30% off), and, the last time i resold one of their plugins (Electra2), i had to do so with big, big loss.

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You are part of the equation as well. Why not buy something expensive and work with it until you've squeezed the full value out of it, and more? Then never resell it and continue to work with it? I realize that it's easier to write posts and complain, though. Are you taking the easier path?

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Currently form their website:
https://www.tone2.com/shop.html

Electra €149
Saurus €99
And Icarus is €149 (which is the best sounding of their synths imho)

Are those really too expensive for what they do?

rsp
sound sculptist

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It's nice that they didn't charge Gladiator V3 update.
Rayblaster 2 and saurus2 updates have been very expensive. The electra2 update price was ok for the improvements.


I bought on sales from best service 2 tone2 synths for one price. And icarus was reduced in ebay for $99 - maybe it was a mistake, that the shop has offered it to low, it was very soon after the release.

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bbtr wrote:You are part of the equation as well. Why not buy something expensive and work with it until you've squeezed the full value out of it, and more? Then never resell it and continue to work with it? I realize that it's easier to write posts and complain, though. Are you taking the easier path?
So, going by that logic, i should buy the synth, even though i don't think that the price is justified, dive deep into it, and never resell it, even though i may at some point change my taste, and find that the synth isn't for me anymore, or never was? Hmm...

BTW, i read about that "You are part of the equation" stuff since the pretty beginning i registered here, and it never grew on me. We would all just be using Synth1, and live happily ever after, if that was true. And, noone in the "serious" music business would have used a Moog as well. Again, though, i AM interested in Tone2's synth, and probably would also buy one, if their price policy would be better. What does ranting about here change? Not much. Thought i was entitled to a opinion though, as anyone else is.
zvenx wrote:Currently form their website:
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://www.tone2.com/shop.html</span>

Electra €149
Saurus €99
And Icarus is €149 (which is the best sounding of their synths imho)

Are those really too expensive for what they do?

rsp
IMO, every software synthesizer costing more than 100 € is overpriced. That's why i usually buy when there is a sale. Funnily, the only synth i ever paid more than 100 € WAS Electra2. ;)

And if you think my opinion is not valid, Rolf Wöhrmann from Tempo Rubato/Waldorf actually stated the same once. That no software synthesizer should cost over 100 €. Seems like the "sweet spot" for the industry seems to be 150 € plus for a moderately featured soft synth though. Which IMO is quite a lot, considering you already get a Waldorf Blofeld for below 400 €, and that already has a "mini computer" built into it, if you want to call the DSP that, and has phsycial knobs and interface. To each his opinion, but, especially when you consider that you get synth apps for an iPad so dirt cheap, 150-200 € is a lot of money.

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Don't want to derail this too much, but i think certain softsynths are worth a higher price then $100,-- (easily);

Falcon
Avenger
Icarus
Absynth (back in the day)
Diva
Zebra2
Bazille
XILS4
Harmor
MPowerSynth

To name a few

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My personal thought is G3 is in the road map and in the pipeline. It is used to response to Zebra 3 :wink:

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exmatproton wrote:Don't want to derail this too much, but i think certain softsynths are worth a higher price then $100,-- (easily);

Falcon
Avenger
Icarus
Absynth (back in the day)
Diva
Zebra2
Bazille
XILS4
Harmor
MPowerSynth

To name a few
Quite some extreme featured synths you named though, like Falcon, Avenger, Absynth, and Zebra. I also understand that something like Halion has to cost more. But, let's face it, it's a small market, with relatively small amounts of sold copies. The same 150€ synths cost 20-30 € on the iPad. Of course, you gotta add the gadget factor, and advertising for their PC or Mac software to that. Let's say they would cost 50 € then. Again, a lot more copies than on this market though, hence the small price. I'd still say it is possible to sell a moderately featured synth for 100 € though. KV331 Audio don't seem to do so bad selling Synthmaster and Synthmaster One for 99 €, and all year around sales.

I don't even want to know how many more copies good Lennard could sell from Sylenth1, if he lowered the price to a decent amount. 165 € in the EU for it is, excuse me, a bad joke, considering its features, and its age. But then, i'm also used to bad businessman-ship in this industry.

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chk071 wrote:...........

And if you think my opinion is not valid, Rolf Wöhrmann from Tempo Rubato/Waldorf actually stated the same once. That no software synthesizer should cost over 100 €. Seems like the "sweet spot" for the industry seems to be 150 € plus for a moderately featured soft synth though. Which IMO is quite a lot, considering you already get a Waldorf Blofeld for below 400 €, and that already has a "mini computer" built into it, if you want to call the DSP that, and has phsycial knobs and interface. To each his opinion, but, especially when you consider that you get synth apps for an iPad so dirt cheap, 150-200 € is a lot of money.
I don't know who Rolf is, but I note no Waldorf vsti is 100 Euros or less...https://waldorfmusic.com/en/shop-overview

I come from the days of hardware and as much as software has so much advantages, for me one of the big drawback is that brings entitlement with it. Especially when so many free software synths exist.

For a developer who is doing this part time or as a hobby, fine surely he can afford to charge little or no money for these wonderful gems, but for a developer who has to feed his family with this, show me the economics of how selling less than 100 euros works for them?

Its easily 1-2 years of development time.....how many units of software do you think a developer actually sells?

rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sound sculptist

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i agree that some synths (and fx vst's, for that matter) are overpriced (rapid, poly ana, spire,,to name a few).
But, $100,-- isn't a maximum for me for sure (see my previous list :) )

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The bottom line for me is that you and only you will know how much the product is worth to you to decide if you will pay X amount for it.Surely the developer who knows how much R&D he/she has put in it and expected sales and their living expense knows how much he/she wants to sell it for.

If for you it is too expensive don't buy it, but for me sometimes it comes across like someone thinks that somehow the developer has lost his/her mind and unrealistic or trying to rip people off, or worse that the developers somehow owes it to them to price it so they can 'afford' it.
Which is how I read the adverb in your expensive comment.
rsp
sound sculptist

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zvenx wrote:The bottom line for me is that you and only you will know how much the product is worth to you to decide if you will pay X amount for it.
Surely the developer who knows how much R&D he/she has put in it and expected sales and their living expense knows how much he/she wants to sell it for.

If for you it is too expensive don't buy it, but for me sometimes it comes across like someone thinks just that it isn't worth it for them, that somehow the developer has lost his/her mind and unrealistic or trying to rip people off, or worse that the developers somehow owes it to them to price it so they can 'afford' it.
Which is how I read the adverb in your expensive comment.
rsp
Sure, i agree.

However, 1 note; overpriced to me, is something different compared to 'too expensive'. I may find myself buying a synth of which i think it is overpriced (compared to other synths for instance) but i don't find it too expensive to buy it anyway (for different reasons; for instance to 'help' a new dev).

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zvenx wrote:
chk071 wrote:...........

And if you think my opinion is not valid, Rolf Wöhrmann from Tempo Rubato/Waldorf actually stated the same once. That no software synthesizer should cost over 100 €. Seems like the "sweet spot" for the industry seems to be 150 € plus for a moderately featured soft synth though. Which IMO is quite a lot, considering you already get a Waldorf Blofeld for below 400 €, and that already has a "mini computer" built into it, if you want to call the DSP that, and has phsycial knobs and interface. To each his opinion, but, especially when you consider that you get synth apps for an iPad so dirt cheap, 150-200 € is a lot of money.
I don't know who Rolf is, but I note no Waldorf vsti is 100 Euros or less...https://waldorfmusic.com/en/shop-overview
It's funny. Rolf wrote that before Nave (which was coded by him) was released for 149 €. My guess is: He thought that it could be priced 99 €, but, Waldorf said that it should be in line with their other synths, and, generally, with the soft synth market.

Anyway. It is what it is. Maybe Tone2 actually do a sale with a bigger discount at some point. Will look out for that. And, fair enough if you guys consider the prices fair. Just my opinion. :) Let's just say i'd be curious what would be if companies only charged about 99 € from now on. Either many businesses going bankrupt, or, a bigger market. ;)

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They are not expensive. You are poor. Big difference.

I'm not a rich person myself, but I have to back the devs on this; the time, the effort, the education that went into this is not cheap - people are earning a living. Then they have to support/upgrade it and continue educating themselves with new tech and so on. What can you do with 150 Euros today anyway?

I think it's a small price to pay for the enjoyment it brings. Wanting everything for free is unreasonable.

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