Hartmann Neuron VS is shipping

[Sascha Franck]

Don't get me wrong, MIDI note numbers work

So it DOES respond to notes? Well, that's at least something for a VSTi, isn't it?
It should've gotten a better rating just for that revolutionary feature!

[Cosmic Bandito]

Don't get me wrong, MIDI note numbers work

So it DOES respond to notes? Well, that's at least something for a VSTi, isn't it?
It should've gotten a better rating just for that revolutionary feature!

Pros:
Responds to Midi notes

[McLilith]

Pros:
Responds to Midi notes

Cons:
It responds to MIDI notes, by crashing!



McLilith

[aMUSEd]

Oh well I have read the review mow - and for comparison I also checked out the various threads on this over on the official Neuron VS forum. Scot's findings in the CM review are quite worrying considering I was about to fork out nearly £450 for this I think I'll certainly wait until at least the next update (maybe the price will come down a bit too by then). On the forum at Hartman they seem to be saying it was just an isolated incident and that CM should have liased with them better but from Scot's own account it's clear that he did contact them and that there were several models that had the same problems. Also a look through the forum shows there are several other reports of instability. However, to be fair, it's also clear that if the problems CM were having were being replicated by every purchaser I'd have thought Hartman would have a riot on their hands by now so maybe it's more the case that it needs to be better tested on a wider range of systems and some quality control issues perhaps. I'm still concerned about 2 things in particular - 1 is that there are reports of the Nuke controller interfering with other USB devices (one forumite said it interfered with his Logic XS key causing Logic to lock him out). The 2nd is that I'm still not clear about the midi cc issue - it seems to me that the Nuke was designed to be the sole hardware controller of the VST - otherwise how could it act as a dongle? So why should it be possible to assign it midi cc's at all (apart from notes) - otherwise crackers could just release it and tel people how to set it up to work with a midi controller or even a joystick. So maybe it's not meant to work properly with other controllers (or even I presume a mouse). It clearly says on the instruments page on this site that "The button selects which of the Neuron VS Modules that is controlled by the stick: Resynator 1, Resynator 2, or Silver. It is not possible to work on the settings of those parameter groups without Nuke". So I'm wondering if even a software update could address all these issues if they are connected with the fundamental design of the Nuke/software link. Anyway - lets see what the update brings.

[Scot Solida]

I steadfastly refuse to go argue the flaws of this thing on the Hartmann forum. They are drawing erroneous conclusions over there if they think we did not give Hartmann every opprotunity to respond to the complaints. They did respond, briefly, but offered nothing to counter the findings I made. The MIDI CC issue was confirmed by a UK reviewer with whom I had contact. And the Hartman forumites can defend themselves as they please that this was an isolated problem, but the fact is that every complaint I had has been made by users on the forum as well.

As for the Nuke being the only MIDI controller...no, it isn't. You have access to all the usual MIDI control things like aftertouch, mod and pitch wheels and velocities. Problem is, they cannot be used without the problems cited in the magazine review. Again, I had a UK reviewer confirm these MIDI CC issues.

Maybe it doesn't happen on every system, maybe it does. Look at Majken's comments, and you can see how unpredictable this thing is. He says he couldn't get it to work in Sonar...yet Sonar was one of only two hosts that I could get it to work in! Some days it would work in a given host for a few minutes, others it would crash the same host upon opening the plug-in.

Sorry, but I don't think such things are worth taking a thousand dollar risk...

[shamann]

Reading through all the problems people have had with this here and elsewhere, I can't help but think the dedicated Nuke controller was a really bad idea. That getting paranoid and forcing a dongle made Hartmann get a bit sloppy with the programming. Should have maybe aimed to make the thing as a straightforward plugin first, get that down pat, then get fancy.

[OMU]

hmmmmmmmmm, it was on my shopping list. Now, I'm reconsidering.

[Kriminal]

Its buggy, it doesnt work, and no-one is gonna buy it.....




...and its all Scot fault




f**k em i say, if they put out a piece of software that can t even do the basic stuff, they deserve a ripping, no matter how big they think they are.

[krhen]

Ok I gotta ask Scot - what were the specs of the PC(s) you were using that had the Midi CC problem (same to the other reviewer who saw the problems)?

People on the Hartmann forum are reporting that the Midi CCs asignments and mod wheel are working without any problems, pops or clicks (all reports from Mac users I think so far). I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. Thanks

[da adidas 12]

This is actually why I wait to see how people respond to new products. I dont know whos beta testing much of the software today but alot of the bugginess is pretty bothersome.

[Scot Solida]

Ok I gotta ask Scot - what were the specs of the PC(s) you were using that had the Midi CC problem (same to the other reviewer who saw the problems)?

People on the Hartmann forum are reporting that the Midi CCs asignments and mod wheel are working without any problems, pops or clicks (all reports from Mac users I think so far). I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. Thanks

My Mac is a dual 2 gHz G5 with 1 gig of RAM. It happened on that machine. It happened on another reviewer's Mac that has 2 gigs of RAM. It happened on my PC, an XP1900+, with 512 MB RAM, well in excess of the 850mHz, 256 MB RAM requirements listed by Hartmann. It aint CPU. My CPU meters never exceeded 40% on the PC, and nowhere near that on the Mac. Nope. Can't blame the CPU.

And before you ask, as a reviewer, I have every variety of MIDI and audio interface around my studio. I tried firewire, i tried USB, I tried PCI. I unplugged everything except the Nuke from my USB ports and hubs, I tried powered hubs, I tried buss-power. Nothing gave me good results.

To be quite blunt, I personally am somewhat grumpy about the insinuations on the forums that I did anything less than EVERYTHING to make this thing work. As I pointed out earlier, every complaint I made against this thing was also made on Hartmann's own forum by somebody else. This is not an "isolated occurance". Most end users do not have access to the wide variety of options that I tried. It is part of my job to make sure I can cover all the bases, and I do so.

It seems apparent to me that this product is faulty. All the evangelising and damage control in the world will not change that. Only Hartmann can change that. There will be people who scrimp and save to buy this thing, and some of them may be very unhappy. My systems are not uncommon, and resemble those of many computer musicians. If the Neuron doesn't work on mine, it may not work on theirs. Let's be realistic. Hartmann advertised this thing to work on a G5. I have one of the most common models, and a very powerful one. It aint like there are too many variables in the Mac world.

Look, I just wrote a review. I spent over a month with the product. I wanted to love it and I couldn't. If I had been a paying customer, I would have been very, very angry.

That's all I have to say on this subject until an update is released, at which point I might take a look at it again. I have far too much work to do to be spending as much time as I have on the forums defending my review of this one product.

[krhen]

To be quite blunt, I personally am somewhat grumpy about the insinuations on the forums that I did anything less than EVERYTHING to make this thing work.

Well, sorry As I said, what you found and what others are reporting doesn't mesh so I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of this. I've got several hundred dollars on a pending purchase here and want to make sure what I get works.

As I pointed out earlier, every complaint I made against this thing was also made on Hartmann's own forum by somebody else.

I went over them and didn't find the MIDI CC issue posted anywhere. Did I miss it? Can you provide a link please? Thanks

I'm not saying it doesn't have problems - otherwise an update wouldn't be in the immediate works. I just can't understand something as obvious as the MIDI CC issue you reported getting past beta testers. Didn't anyone move the mod wheel? Somehow I doubt that, so I'm trying to figure out (before spending my hard earned money) whether this is the exception or the average.

[Scot Solida]

No need to apologize, I am not grumpy at you in particular over this, I just feel like I have spent far too much time and effort defending a review that was written honestly. It isn't my job to defend agains the problems with this product, it is Hartmann's. I have nothing to gain or lose by telling it like it is.

I haven't the time to go looking through the Hartmann forum for the mention of the MIDI cc issue, but it was somewhere towards the beginning of release. I have no reason to claim the MIDI problem is there if it isn't. And I made sure it wasn't just my system (and both of my systems at that!). I consulted another reviewer, and he confirmed it with his system, too.

If I was in your shoes, I would be just as concerned as you are. It is an expensive purchase.

As for the beta-testers, I can't imagine how they could have missed this problem. Maybe the fact that is was such an expensive hardware/software combination means that it was not financially feasible for Hartmann to have too many beta-testers. I don't know. The results are that the paying customers will be the ones finding these bugs.

On a more encouraging note, they ARE working on an update. I couldn't get a release date for it out of them. I am willing to write a follow-up review when it comes out, but I have no idea when that could happen.

I hope you have better luck than I have had getting something useful out of the Neuron. Some of the sounds played fine, some of the time. If you are lucky, it might work in your host of choice (it works best in SX3 for some, for me it was Sonar 4). Personally, the instabilities and the MIDI issue meant that I was unable to get any productive work done with the product. You might be able to, I don't know.

What I do know is that I stand by my assessment that the Neuron is not worth the $1000 gamble at this time.

[krhen]

I haven't the time to go looking through the Hartmann forum for the mention of the MIDI cc issue, but it was somewhere towards the beginning of release.

I did just read through the whole forum but still didn't find it. There are others there now reporting no problems with CCs too. Hopefully the problem is isolated.

Maybe the fact that is was such an expensive hardware/software combination means that it was not financially feasible for Hartmann to have too many beta-testers

Easy solution to that: Early Beta systems are software-only - no need for nuke to test until you've worked out all the bugs in the software EXCEPT for the nuke part. Then that would have even made the nuke testing easier. Oh well - Hartmann should hire me

I couldn't get a release date for it out of them.

They're more tight-lipped than the CIA on release dates to be sure. I understand not wanting to make promises and have to break them, but I don't know which is worse - that or not saying anything and keeping us wondering

[PaulSC]

Hmm, pretty sure this is a typo (?):

What I do know is that I stand by my assessment that the Neuron is worth the $1000 gamble at this time.

Did you intend the opposite?